15-12-2002 06:55									#1
	OOC: Did Lux Invicta and Neu Demogyptica meet? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I'm guessing Lux and New Demogyptica made contact this turn since both teams have had to stop and discuss something important.

This is a quote from the general forum. I suspected the same thing when those two teams took extra long the other day. Question is - what does this mean to us?

From our Which Tech? thread:

quote: Originally posted by ruby_maser Lux Invicta -- Ottomans (scientific, industrious) ... starts with Bronze Working and Masonry Neu Demogyptica -- Arabs (religious, expansionistic) ... starts with Pottery and Ceremonial Burial

So if these two have met, and traded, they could each have four techs now, and be researching next level techs (Iron Working, Mysticism), confident that they can buy the lower techs from the rest of us.

In particular, our ambassors should be aware of this possibility, and we should all think about further ramafications of this, and other possible enemy collaborations prior to meeting us.

	15-12-2002 07:33									#2
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I'll see what I can find out.

	15-12-2002 09:03									#3
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Neu Dem is the only civ with scouts, who move at an alarmingly fast rate, plus they start moving from the first turn. Neu Dem is going to be the civ who makes first contact with most everyone, and we should keep track of who they meet and the direction they came from, as it might tip us off where to find the other civs ourselves.

When they arrive, they will be willing to make tech sales/trades. Frankly, I hope we meet them before they meet the legos because we can give them alphabet for a few of the techs they've discovered.

I would like to know if anyone thinks Neu Dem or Lux are conquest types of civs. If so, each of them could be paranoidly gearing up for a conflict with the other... which isn't such a bad thing for any of us.

We may want to think about way to spread that paranoia, too.

--Togas

	15-12-2002 09:39									#4
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dunno about Neu Dem, but I personally suspect Lux of conquest-aspirations

if i had to guess, Neu Dem looks more like a builder civ to me

just my paranoia tho, no solid fact.

	15-12-2002 11:17									#5
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Well, Trip is certainly prone to press the big red button, but that doesn't mean the rest of his team is (or even that Trip will stay true to that course). That said, I agree with Ninot that I suspect Lux will be somewhat warlike, but very very cautious if they are (they do have a number of builder-types on the team and Trip is a cautious warmonger anyhow).

	15-12-2002 11:18									#6
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Oh, and as for New Dem... I would suspect them to be more builder-type from what they SEEM so far, but Arabia is -no question about it- a warmonger civ.

	15-12-2002 20:20									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos but Arabia is -no question about it- a warmonger civ.

I don't think so... Expansionist and religious are more builders traits, and the Arabian UU is not a great military unit, except that it comes at a great time for a GA. Arabia is my favorite civ at the moment, but I'd say I'm 70% builder - 30% warmonger

	16-12-2002 01:12									#8
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Crousto,

I've played the Arabians as a pure warmonger civ just to try it out and it was, by far, the most fun I've ever had with a warmonger civ. I've played 3 games of PTW now warmongering as the Arabs... they're AWESOME for it due to that UU (which is pretty close to China's...) and the religious trait.

	16-12-2002 03:08									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Togas Neu Dem is the only civ with scouts, who move at an alarmingly fast rate, plus they start moving from the first turn. Neu Dem is going to be the civ who makes first contact with most everyone, and we should keep track of who they meet and the direction they came from, as it might tip us off where to find the other civs ourselves. --Togas

Yes, Neu Dem definitely has the advantage with the Scouts but it is possible to meet other civs before them simply if we are closer and we go in the right direction (how to determine that I have no idea).

From the posts I've read I think Lux is a dead horse. They appear to have a history of flying by the seat of their pants and while that may work with the AI, I feel human opponents will obliterate them.

Neu Dem played their website's Democracy game with an extremely warmonger bias. They chose a civ that supports the warmonger play style well. I suspect they will eventually take out Lux.

We should try to link with the GOW, I know it sounds crazy but they have hinted at alliances, vassal systems, and mercenary contracts so I do believe they would be willing to work with someone. I do not believe they started on a one tile desert island. And they have Warrior Code which would be useful to build counter attack forces in a possible assault from Neu Dem. I think Gathering Storm is a team we should be very careful about forming friendships with. They seem to be cold and calculating and give me the feeling they would turn on you in a heartbeat.

Course, it is possible we are on a solitary mini continent by ourselves.

	16-12-2002 08:04									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Thrumble Course, it is possible we are on a solitary mini continent by ourselves.

Wouldnt it be great if, after 20 turns, we discovered this game is a 1-in-a-million example of a buggy game in which 7 of 8 civs are packed onto a mini-continent, and the other one has all the land it wants?

	16-12-2002 08:27									#11
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Hmm, what if they are arguing about territorial rights already?
And threatening eachother, or worse? mnheheeeh...

	16-12-2002 09:58									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Ninot Wouldnt it be great if, after 20 turns, we discovered this game is a 1-in-a-million example of a buggy game in which 7 of 8 civs are packed onto a mini-continent, and the other one has all the land it wants?

The downside for the civ all alone is no tech trading.

	16-12-2002 16:46									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Togas Neu Dem is the only civ with scouts, who move at an alarmingly fast rate, plus they start moving from the first turn. --Togas

It is a good reason for all others to KILL the scouts. With human players, the question of reputation is somewhat different.

	16-12-2002 20:12									#14
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Well, I don't think Lux will have any hopes of taking out Neu Dem at this point. If Neu turns out to be warlike, it may go the other way, but odds are that scouts found Lux, and Lux still doesn't know where Neu is.

They may know the general direction they came from though and REX in that direction in an attempt at land/resource denial.

	16-12-2002 22:21									#15
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quote: Originally posted by ruby_maser Well, I don't think Lux will have any hopes of taking out Neu Dem at this point. If Neu turns out to be warlike, it may go the other way, but odds are that scouts found Lux, and Lux still doesn't know where Neu is. They may know the general direction they came from though and REX in that direction in an attempt at land/resource denial.

Unless, of course, the Scout had finished scouting a penisula and was on its return trip when it found Lux. Then Lux would be scouting in a dead end direction.

	17-12-2002 03:08									#16
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quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT It is a good reason for all others to KILL the scouts. With human players, the question of reputation is somewhat different.

Or just ask them politely to go home...
- With an intense stare and raised battleaxe.



When the shít hits the fan, they all just blame the
"international pressure", and apologize.
(like all politicians do)

	17-12-2002 06:33									#17
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Well, as of yet, no response has been heard to my latest batch of diplomatic hails. However, I soon expect something in the way of a salutary greeting and some form of kissing up, which seems to be the way of these Arabs. They are either over-awed by our cities and squids, or they are gearing up for some sort of warfare, or they are all mentally deranged.

My impression is that the Arabs are a very secretive society. They tend to be builders, but they don't seem to be overly excited with it. For the most part, they lean to the expansionist policy. They seem to be doing a good deal of exploring, and all this in the name of their gods, and especially their female deity, Allaht. For her they seem to be mad with fervor. Their religious beliefs tell them to go off and convert all to their religion, using force if necessary, and so I do doubt, especially with their strength in the art of taming wild beasts, that they will stay quiet forever. We must be on our guard.

As for somehow isolating and slaying their scouts, I do not think this would be advisable as of now, not politically or militarily. However, it is not my choice to make. It is simply my opinion that they may become our best allies.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger
Ambassador to the Filthy Heathen Barbaric Arabs

	17-12-2002 06:43									#18
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If the these Arabs Hernan is talking about, settles their moors on the Grenada coast... What then? Are we up for a war then?

	17-12-2002 06:52									#19
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If so, war is unavoidable. We cannot afford to have them in the area at this point. The Moors, their Caliph, and their general, Othello, are a great danger to Spanish civilization, especially the family of Ummayads that are for empire. However, unless that event takes place, we must treat them as the best of friends, which I am doing, though I fear that one day they will abolish their religion of theirs and adopt...horror of horrors!...one of monotheism, or one god, and that then they will go even madder! However...unless that day comes, we must treat them civilly.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger
Ambassador to the Squids...Errrr...I mean the Arabs

	17-12-2002 07:09									#20
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Yes, we will treat them nice now...
Let's just hope the gods will give
them enough to deal with elsewhere.

	17-12-2002 22:04									#21
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As ambassador to Lux Invicta, I can say that they have warring tendencies. AdmiralPJ is their FAM, and he fancies himself an excellent military strategist. Trip is their leader, and as we know, likes to fight his battles, but, I think they are not as openly aggressive as GS or GW might be.

I am certain that they do fear GW somewhat, and are apprehensive about being caught off guard by them in the future. So, I think they will try to keep the rest of us happy, so that should they need an alliance, they may get it.

If Neu is aggressive towards Lux, there will be a war, I do not see Lux cowering from a fight.

Obviously, Neu is the unknown entity here.

I can send a PM - vague to the Admiral - to see if they've found anyone.

Master Togas, may I say that we have not met any other civs yet?

	17-12-2002 22:20									#22
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It's fine to let them know that we have not met any other civs yet, but only volunteer the info if they ask of it.

The focus on the email should be arranging for a trade on the event of our meeting ... and trying to see if they want to arrange for a meeting.

It's also to feel them out to see what they'll offer and what they'll tell us.

--Togas

	17-12-2002 22:22									#23
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Neu is provably going on a conquest rampage as soon as they get thos god*mned ansar.We must take care and pray the spirits they get some 6 or 7 barbarian uprisings near their capital city

	18-12-2002 00:43									#24
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Ok, I have sent a PM.

I will copy our Supreme Leader.

I will let you know what I hear.

Viva España

	18-12-2002 23:38									#25
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I know Admiral PJ has read my note, but I have no response from him. Tonight I will check the chat, he usually is there when I am on.

As for Neu, I have looked at many of their posts, and they are either hiding behind the language barrier or there really is one.
There is an indication that they are being aggressive, to Lux and that they two have met. This is insinuated by Lux team members. Neu's only comment (by helios earlier today) is to have said "don´t worry we´ll win! ", so that may be a confirmation.

GF was bold enough to say, I thought you guys already met, in the following post. No response specifically confirming it.

May opinion is that did meet.