15-12-2002 08:14									#1
	Need advice on computer games from OTers Support Apolyton

Hi, I have been thinking of getting a new computer game. I mostly like Strategy and RPG games. Here are some games I have been thinking:

Elder Scrolls III Morrowind: From what I have heard from some people this is the best RPG ever and the closest anything has come to pen and paper D&D. Still though I normally likes games where you control a party rather than just one character. I do like though how this game is non-linear. How have you people who bought this game liked it?

Neverwinter Nights: I considered getting this game instead of WC3 awhile back. How has this game worked out? How easy is it to get online- does whatever online service they have compare well to battle.net? How hard would it be if I started the game now as a newbie? Are there still alot of pepole playing it online?

Hearts of Iron: I loved EUII and I think that was probably the best game ever. But I have heard some really bad things about its realism from Boshko- I have hear of Thailand splitting up China with Japan and then taking Stalingrad to split up the USSR with Germany. I have heard of someone playing Brazil and conquering the United States. I have heard of Taft beating FDR for the Presidency and then making the US an Axis. From what I hear this game has serious realism problems. Also, one major problem I had with EUII was that it was too easy to play as one of the great powers. The leaders of France for instance faced many challenges, but in EUII France was rediculously easy. In HOI how much of a challenge is there being one of the great powers (US, UK, USSR, Germany, Japan)?

ALso any other games people would reccomend?

Thanks.

	15-12-2002 08:17									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I still love my Baldurs Gate.. As for Neverwinter Nights II.. I'm buying it soon. Sorry, if I wasn't of any help .

	15-12-2002 08:19									#3
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Morrowind is great, but you need a good system to run it properly. I would recommend at least a Gforce4 Ti 4200 and a 1.5 gig or higher processor.

I haven't played the other two.

	15-12-2002 09:34									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

Hearts of Iron!

I've been playing it constantly these past couple days (in between finals). There were some problems with earlier patches. For instance, there were problems with the AI not building enough units, but have been fixed for the most part (hence, the Axis states being unusally powerful, and humans being able to beat any country fairly easily). And yes, there are still some problems; for instance if you're a neutral there doesn't seem to be any reaction if the player goes on a conquering spree against other neutrals, but it really isn't a problem as long as you role-play within historical parameters.

But the tactical AI is absolutely brilliant compared to EU II. As an example, I started a UK '36 campaign yesterday. A few months or so after the war started (in '40), I launched an invasion against Germany originally trying to secure a beach-head in the German coastal forts between Denmark and Holland. When I encountered less resistance than I expected, I pushed further inland, seeing if I could encircle some of the German forces on the other side of the Maginot line (most of their troops were in Poland at the time). But before I could make it to the Rhine, I got a little greedy and tried to destroy a couple panzer divisions travelling to the Western front. I was winning the battles, but Germany brought divisions West from the Polish front. Instead of simply reinforcing their losing armour, which I could've defeated as well, they cut off my armies' supplies and any hope of retreat. Then they reinforced their armies, and it was only a matter of time till my armies were destroyed.

How easy is it? Well, on version 1.02 on very hard, it's definitely a challenge to play as one of the majors except perhaps the US, which is like France and Spain in EU combined, and to a much lesser extent the Soviet Union. England and Japan are very fun, IMO.

	15-12-2002 11:06									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Ramo, how do you have version 1.02?! Only 1.01 is on the Web site.

	15-12-2002 11:08									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Morrowind runs fine on a weaker processor and slower video card

good game

Jon Miller

	15-12-2002 11:09									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

I am playing Civ3, Arcanum, and Zangband ringht now

	15-12-2002 11:14									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Ramo, from what I see it doesn't look like paradox has their act together quite yet......... The problems seem rather troubling to the extent that it wouldn't give an at all accurate representation of WWII

http://www.europa-universalis.com/f...?threadid=61302

	15-12-2002 11:36									#9
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Ramo, from what I see it doesn't look like paradox has their act together quite yet......... The problems seem rather troubling to the extent that it wouldn't give an at all accurate representation of WWII

It's not supposed to be too accurate, it's about creating alternate history.

	15-12-2002 11:44									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Right of course, I don't expect a recreation of history, but I do expect a pretty realalistic portryal of the events and capabilites of the nations during this time period. The French retaking France on their own without allied help after France was lost does not make it seem like it does a very good job of that.

	15-12-2002 12:10									#11
	Inflate your Upload Space

It's a minor balancing issue, nothing fundamentally wrong with the game. In 1.01, the Axis AI's were too strong and the Allied AI's too weak, now in 1.02 the situation is reversed albeit to a much lesser degree. It'll be fixed soon by either other HoI players or Paradox itself. In any case, it's just as fun even if the game isn't a perfectly accurate reflection of reality at the moment.

Boris, try this: http://www.europa-universalis.com/f...&threadid=61180

	15-12-2002 12:12									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I got it Ramo, thanks.

To be realistic, the Axis should be at a real disadvantage. They were historically. If one thinks about it, the change of a few events early on could lead to dramatically different events in the war.

	15-12-2002 12:23									#13
	Put an end to popups!

That's true. I think a problem some players might be having is that they're playing the game at too low of an agressiveness level, and so Germany never takes the risks that historically paid off very well (i.e. invading France through the Ardennes).

	15-12-2002 13:04									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I am running Morrowind on a P3700 with 256 megs of ram. I have a geoforce 2 MX400 video card.

it runs decent. A little bit of a load between transitions. I do like Morrowind, but I'm so spoiled with D&D rules. It's harder to get into a sword and spell rpg that isn't D&D . But it is a fun game. The graphics are excellent.

Neverwinter nights. If you love D&D this game is a must have. Especially multiplayer. It really does come the closest to recreating the module campaigns people had with pen and paper. But if you never played PnP D&D and you like top notch graphics this game might not be for you. Don't get me wrong though, the graphics are excellent- just not top notch.

	15-12-2002 13:11									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Very easy decision:

The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind

It is the greatest game ever made. Incredible in scope and story. Civ2 even cannot compare.

	15-12-2002 13:20									#16
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I haven't gotten a chance to play 1.02 of HOI but I noticed that it didn't chance the supply/trade system around much or add partisans both of which are DESPERATELY needed.

I just played a '36 game as Sweden and after a couple years of DAMN hard fighting I was able to annex the bulk of Germany since the Germans just couldn't fight a three-front war forever (although they were able to capture my beachhead and force me to evucuate germany once) and now Sweden stretches to Switzerland. Was very funny seeing how ridiculously long it took for France to launch a counter attack when me and Poland had germany on the ropes

I'm having a really hard time getting a hang of the (in my opion very crappy) supply system. For most of the war my industrial output was half of what it was when I didn't have any units in germany and no matter what I could I couldn't figure out how to change this which drove me nuts...

Also, when the AI is able to establish a front it can generally keep up a fairly good defence, but if you can pole holes in it the AI goes down very quickly (was able to conquer India with extreme ease as Thailand...

	16-12-2002 03:32									#17
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Whoa! Morrowind is good but it's far from the greatest game ever. There are severe problems with the way the game is set up.

Character selection - The birthsigns are totally imbalanced with the Atronach being 10x better than all the others. Character classes mean absolutely nothing. Races mean very little also, with the exception of the beast races being weakened by not being able to wear the BOBS.

Battle System - Magic is worthless to battle with. Even a pure mage will have more success using a big sword than magic.

Thieving - it is pointless to use lockpicks when a simple open spell will get anything open for cheap.

Plugins - Plugins are one of the strengths of this game and there are a ton of good ones out there, but the game saves in such a way that changing any plugins midgame has a huge chance to totally **** up your game. The only way to safely use plugins is to start a new character and never change the loaded plugins.

Performance - I don't consider 10 fps good performance. Morrowind runs fine on slower machines with the view distance in and settings turned down. I don't like it when everything is foggy.

Given all that, the game is still awesome. I love it. I just don't think it's even close to being the best game ever.

	16-12-2002 06:05									#18
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Whoa! Morrowind is good but it's far from the greatest game ever.

Name a better one.

quote: Character selection - The birthsigns are totally imbalanced with the Atronach being 10x better than all the others. Character classes mean absolutely nothing. Races mean very little also, with the exception of the beast races being weakened by not being able to wear the BOBS.

I liked the 'Lady' best of all. Classes and Races aren't supposed to mean anything. You are supposed to build yourself up.

quote: Battle System - Magic is worthless to battle with. Even a pure mage will have more success using a big sword than magic.

I hardly use magic, so it works for me. I always thought it was silly that mages didn't have to be good with weaponry.

quote: Thieving - it is pointless to use lockpicks when a simple open spell will get anything open for cheap.

Then use open spells. I'm not forcing you to use lockpicks.

quote: Plugins - Plugins are one of the strengths of this game and there are a ton of good ones out there, but the game saves in such a way that changing any plugins midgame has a huge chance to totally **** up your game. The only way to safely use plugins is to start a new character and never change the loaded plugins.

I only use official plugins

quote: Performance - I don't consider 10 fps good performance. Morrowind runs fine on slower machines with the view distance in and settings turned down. I don't like it when everything is foggy.

The lowest I get in 20 fps. I usually get 40-50 fps.

quote: I just don't think it's even close to being the best game ever.

There is not a single game close to as good it is. Fallout comes closest in the RPG department, but it falls very, very short. And I've played a LOT of games.

	16-12-2002 06:20									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Has anyone said Medieval Total war yet?
I got that game a few weeks ago and I must say it is one of the best strategy games I have played in a long time. Its a million times better then shogun as well.

	16-12-2002 06:28									#20
	Tired of ads?

not too up on current games but fallout was (and is) ace

	16-12-2002 08:03									#21
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: I still love my Baldurs Gate.. As for Neverwinter Nights II.. I'm buying it soon. Sorry, if I wasn't of any help

Already a sequel?
Why wasn't I informed?

Neverwinter Nights has an awesome scenario editor and capabilities- but you have to figure it out yourself- but if you know C++ probramming or even BASIC and can slog through the interface, the game is WORTH it! You can do many things with your AI; you can tell it to go to certain places at certain times, different conversation trees, etc.!

	16-12-2002 10:23									#22
	Support Apolyton

"To be realistic, the Axis should be at a real disadvantage. They were historically."

Ya once the USA entered the war that was true. But for awhile things were looking pretty up for the Axis. After Barbarossa started the Soviets were in a really desperate state and if not for some stupid moves by Hitler, Germany might have won on that front.

"Especially multiplayer. "

So is it easy to get good multiplayer campaigns with people? How is the online service for Neverwinter Nights? Does it a have a server like battle.net where you can meet people, or do you have to know people who also play it? Do people create enough new campaigns to give good replayablity?

"I hardly use magic, so it works for me. I always thought it was silly that mages didn't have to be good with weaponry."

So magic does suck in Morrowwind? I always liked magic-using characters in D&D. L(

"Has anyone said Medieval Total war yet?"

What's it like?

"Neverwinter Nights has an awesome scenario editor and capabilities- but you have to figure it out yourself- but if you know C++ probramming or even BASIC and can slog through the interface, the game is WORTH it! "

Sorry, no programing skills. But do you still like the game even without it?

"As for Neverwinter Nights II.. I'm buying it soon.'

When will it be out? I never heard of this one..

	16-12-2002 10:47									#23
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Whoa! Morrowind is good but it's far from the greatest game ever. There are severe problems with the way the game is set up.

I have to agree with this... and from certain point on the fun stops, atleast it stopped for me, and the game gets very repeative.

Also, the non linearity is too much from morrowind to take on, it does not work, not nearly as good as i.e Fallout series. Leveling up your character was not very fun either, the non linearity had part with this too. The idea of being able to go all places was kind of nice, but in the end it didn't work very well

Mike is right, your character can specialize in something but does not have to, even the game does not encourage player to do it either, since you soon find out the best ways to deal with things are simple. Non tieves can open locked doors as easy as thieves with very little effort, and like Mike said warrior/mage fighting styles are not very balanced, there is no use using spells when it takes 5x less time to just beat them up.

quote: The lowest I get in 20 fps. I usually get 40-50 fps.

Would you tell me what machine you have, and also your settings (view distance, shadows and AI distance, maybe resolution too but in morrowind it has little effect on performance). Sure I get 50-100 indoors. Go to the Balmora slit rider and look at the city and tell me what you get in fps... There I get 13...

quote: There is not a single game close to as good it is. Fallout comes closest in the RPG department, but it falls very, very short. And I've played a LOT of games.

I have played many games too. Sorry to step on your toes but it's only fair people hear other opinions too, so they would consider twice buying morrowind. My and my friend certainly don't think it's a great game, he is not even going to finish it! He just said he is too bored with it and don't want to play it nomore.... btw he has also played many games.
I did like both fallouts, actually I think they were great and can't wait to get fallout 3 if they make it.
So there you have it, there are many people who like the game, but also people who don't like it. Actually 66% of the people I know IRL think it's OK (me and my cousin) and 33% of them regret buying (friend I was referring to). I think the guys who made morrowind earned my money, but imho it could have been much much better, and there are tons of better games. But Morrowind is a different game, not many like it now, that is its strong side...

	16-12-2002 12:39									#24
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Did you guys really have trouble using spells?

I am thinking of starting a fighter/mage type character. I tried an archer, but I struggled with him.

Morrowind is a huge game with many possibilities. The graphics are top notch.

But I admit I'm not keen on the races and classes. I'm too used to D&D.

I will play the game through once. Although I already restarted once, and probably will restart again to find the right character for me.

	16-12-2002 12:50									#25
	Put an end to popups!

quote: I haven't gotten a chance to play 1.02 of HOI but I noticed that it didn't chance the supply/trade system around much or add partisans both of which are DESPERATELY needed.

They've changed the supply (it's much harder to run a campaign without adequate supply) and trade (the world market no longer has limitless resources) models, but have not added partisians. I definitely agree that they are needed though.

quote: I just played a '36 game as Sweden and after a couple years of DAMN hard fighting I was able to annex the bulk of Germany since the Germans just couldn't fight a three-front war forever (although they were able to capture my beachhead and force me to evucuate germany once) and now Sweden stretches to Switzerland. Was very funny seeing how ridiculously long it took for France to launch a counter attack when me and Poland had germany on the ropes

Yep, in 1.01, I conquered Germany (with all their usual conquests) as Republican Spain with 7 infantry divisions myself. Previously, the AI's didn't build enough units. This has been impoved quite a bit (but still not perfect) with 1.02.

quote: I'm having a really hard time getting a hang of the (in my opion very crappy) supply system. For most of the war my industrial output was half of what it was when I didn't have any units in germany and no matter what I could I couldn't figure out how to change this which drove me nuts...

I'm not sure what problem you're having... It could be that your armor and mechanized/motorized forces are taking up valuable oil supplies that your industry needs.

quote: Also, when the AI is able to establish a front it can generally keep up a fairly good defence, but if you can pole holes in it the AI goes down very quickly (was able to conquer India with extreme ease as Thailand...

This is much harder to do given tougher restrictions on army supply and AI army sizes.

	16-12-2002 12:53									#26
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Allow me to throw in some praise for HoI. I have to admit, it's a heck of a lot of fun. There were some rather discouraging issues in earlier versions, but ever since 1.02 has come out the game has been 1000% better. This is a game that could very well be the best ever, after proper patching is applied.

	16-12-2002 13:04									#27
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Ya once the USA entered the war that was true. But for awhile things were looking pretty up for the Axis. After Barbarossa started the Soviets were in a really desperate state and if not for some stupid moves by Hitler, Germany might have won on that front.

But the point is, Germany were very lucky to be in that position. For instance, if the French beefed up their lines at the Ardennes, or if Red Army caught the Wehrmacht unprepared to fight a defensive war in '41, instead of the other way around, German forces certainly wouldn't have beat the USSR. What it comes down to is that the Germans were pretty damn lucky to get as far as they did, and even then, Soviet and American industry and manpower ultimately made their fight futile.