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Beör
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Copenhagen, Denmark
Aug 2000
time: 05:13
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Let's face it:
Playing with unity pod scatering on or off gives you two very different gaming experiences.
On:
Favours active, momentum-style play: Get out and get those pods.
Favours certain factions because of their superior pod popping abilities: Gaians (keep capturing worms, and go pod-popping), Spartans (faster units, one tech away from D:flex).
Enables the tech tree to be transversed faster, which favours the human player over the AI, since humans are better at putting new technology to use)
Enables SPs to be produced faster, which also favours the human player.
Off:
Somewhat evens out the early advantage of momentum play vs builder play
Seriously impairs Gaians in the early to mid game, and to a lesser extent Spartans in the early game
Slows the tech advance, which makes the AI play better
Makes it harder to build SPs, which also makes the AI play better
For a long while I preferred playing with scattering off, thereby taking out some of the random elements of the game. Lately, however, I've been playing with scattering on. It is simply more fun.
This has made me wonder:
Having found one of these cherished Alien Artifacts, I have several possibilities:
1. Link it to a network node as soon as possible, trying to gain an early tech advantage. This is what I have been doing most of the time.
2. Save the linking of artifacts till later. The later you use it, the more research points it will net you. Cashing in artifacts in the very early game, might save , say, 40 research points, and make the achievement of regular tech advance much more expensive. If you wait , your regular advance will be much faster, and you get more bang for your buck when you link up the artifact later, saving hundreds or thousands of research points. One time I was researching a really crucial tech (I forget which, could have been Ind Aut). I was about to achieve the tech next turn, but - alas - I had three (no less!!) alien artifacts arriving at three different network nodes at the same turn, and I linked them all: press F2 and '30 turns to next tech adbvancement'. Big Bummer  .
On the other hand having all those artifacts on your hands and not using them, doesn't really get you anywhere, does it? Of course they are denied to the other factions, but still.
This suggests another approach:
3. Use the alien artifact to speed up the building of a Special Project. I have never tried this, how does it work? Will it simply finish the SP next turn or what?
This might make it possible to secure the majority of the important early SPs on your hands. It will free up your production queues for the production of further infrastructure/units, giving you vast turn advantage. Taken together, these two effects might very easily achieve more than gaining an instant tech, particularly early in the game.
In my next few games I think I will experiment with 3, while saving a few AAs for a rainy day (for instance, when somebody comes aknocking with needlejets, and I desperately need D:Airpower. Come to think of it: Preferably some time before they com aknocking  )
Anybody have any thoughts about this?
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Beör
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Copenhagen, Denmark
Aug 2000
time: 05:13
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Paul
Fifty mins it is then. The benefit from getting a new tech will swiftly outdo this. That would limit the use of AAs to speed SPs to the very early game.
That still leaves the idea of saving the AA for later. This very much depends on how the cost of tech levels are calculated.
Does anybody know the formula for calculating the cost of techs?
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Simpson II
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varies
Jul 2000
time: 05:13
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WhiteElephants,
"Do you want the Virtual World or the Merchant Exchange?"
In MP I would prefer the Merchant Exchange. Seriously! If you build the VW and someone begins an assault on you by taking the base which built it, then every base you have is likely to riot next turn. That means halved costs to mind-control them. If Zak builds it, and if you can also take his HQ, then you can buy his empire for a pitance. (Hi Paul! Enjoying the VW in our game?  ) ME helps to pay for all those Holo theatres, and provides a tidy research boost.
Mind you, the Command Nexus is pretty useful for the Spartans. Morale is potentially as good as tech to a momentum player, so IMHO Mis made a good call.
RedFred,
You can get the restrictions lifted in 10 techs (with Cent Eco) if you are lucky, and 13 if you also do Ind. Auto. (a nice back-up, for when the tech tree is being awkward.) Random techs from pods will be unlikely to get you there faster, since you will usually end up with things like applied physics. Useful, but less so when you have a good builder start.
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Hydro
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Winfield, IL, USA
Jun 1999
time: 05:13
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If you use random-random tech advance (non-directed research, all or none of the priorities taken) then ALL of your tech is like cashing in an artifact. Trust me, it is a more tenuous (and realistic) way to live, since you can’t b-line and may not get Nonlinear Mathematics by the time Booger or Yang comes knocking…
In this cases it makes absolutely no difference when you cash in an artifact. In fact, you cash ASAP, since the worst it can do is get rid of one more tech you really don’t need (e.g. – Nonlinear Mathematics...PLEEEEAAAAASE!).
Hydro
P.S. - I occasionally cash one in for a SP, but never prototyping. 50 minerals is a lot in the early game when you might make 5 per turn, and you are energy shy.
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Simpson II
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varies
Jul 2000
time: 05:13
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WE: Woa! True, it woud be a long time to get the energy to build the Holotheatres. I was thinking more in terms of maintainance.
IMHO, if someone picks any one base and says 'I will destroy this' then they can. You can make it very costly, but nerve gas, coupled with a total disregard for their own troops, will do it. A 30 city empire is far, far harder, since you cannot concentrate your forces. But if one city is vital to the safety of the entire empire (with VW, Citizen's Defense Force) then there is the potential for serious problems.
Yes, you can probe-guard. But probes fight at 1-to-1 odds, and if that doesn't favour the attacker more than their best weapons V your defenses then... 'bye-'bye. Also remember, you can't stop bases rioting until the beginning of the next turn. Half a dozen key bases (likely the ones closest to the VW-city, and likely to contain SPs themselves) could be in enemy hands, or obliterated.
To call VW useless would be grossly unfair. But with Theatres cheap to build, the insurance is nice. If it provided a unique advantage (which for Zak it does, to some extent,) or Theatres cost e.g. 150 mins to build then it would be excellent. As it is, I regard it a being a little mediocre. Perhaps I'm being overly safety conscious.
Tell you what. To test the proposition, you build the VW in WDRS, and I'll take it off you .
Didymus,
I only have Smac, so I didn't know about Spore launchers destroying AAs. Nasty.
I can usually trade the techs I have for the things I want from the AI. It flounders about the tree randomly, so my level threes are good exchanges for it's level twos. My bad habit of wandering all over their territory looking for pods tends to ruin that, though  .
[This message has been edited by Simpson II (edited August 24, 2000).]
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Adam_Smith
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The Raisin Capital of the World
Dec 1999
time: 05:13
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This is a good thread.
What I do with my AA's depends entirely on which faction I'm playing. When I used to play Miriam mostly I used to save my artifacts. That way if someone researched an important discovery like D:AP or Pre-Sentient Algorithms then I would start cashing in AA's in hopes of randomly getting that tech. It works good when you can't probe for what you need.
As Domai I tend to just cash them in as soon as I get them and get that momentum going.
As Cha Dawn I use them for SP's and prototyping. The reason is the low industry and the huge cash reserves. Prototypes take a really long time for Cha Dawn, and let's face it, he usually has at least 4-5 AA's around. I usually use 1 AA for an impact rover prototype, and I use 3-4 on special projects. I usually build two special projects before I discover Ind. Auto. I only use 1 or 2 AA's per project and I rush a good portion of the project with my energy reserves. The early projects I pick are usually the WP and the Empathy Guild. Later on I just cash them in for techs.
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:13
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I've never considered using an AA for a prototype rush.
depending on the faction, I'll either use them for tech advances (if I have enough NN's) or, more typically, hoard them for key SP builds.
If Dee or Cha, I'll spend them like crazy, figuring I'll pop enough to keep the momentum going
If Miriam, I'll cash them in as soon as I can, to try and keep up tech-wise - if Zak, I'll hoard, and use them on the later SP's that boost science and cost more.
If a Prog faction, I'll definitely use them only to rush SP's for the energy boost (using cash to rush the base facilities)
In one PBEM I inherited, a pactmate has 12 AA's lying around in various bases - whenever a techboost is needed, they're available.
(And the AI hoards as well - in one game I was playing - as the Hive - I subjugated Lal and gave him all my tech - he had six AA's and cashed all in for techs the next turn and gave them to me - like WOW, right off the power chart with the techlead plus the pop adition from the slave)
Course as Sparta you don't need to prototype and as Morgan you can afford to buy your prototypes.
G.
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Beör
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Copenhagen, Denmark
Aug 2000
time: 05:13
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Hydro and RedFred have an important point.
When playing blind research, linking an AA is just like making research the hard way: The worst that can happen is that you now have one less useless technology to research.
When playing directed research, saving AAs till after the important beelining (Ind Auto, Restriction lifting, tree farms) may be a good idea. Of course as stated by several it will depend on your faction, your tactical and diplomatic situation, and somewhat on your starting position.
This has made me wonder: What about trading Techs. Of course there are other considerations here, like if you want to be friendly to someone or help them stand up to a common foe. But still, if I am playing directed research, buying a tech outside my beeline might slow me down considerably. Should I refrain from making such a trade - all thing s being equal?
One more thing: Are you sure that the tech gained from linking up an AA is completely random. In my experience early on I get Applied Physics more often than not! Usually I don't really need that tech being a builder and all.
And finally, I still don't know how the costs of Tech are calculated - ANYONE?
[This message has been edited by Beör (edited August 28, 2000).]
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Simpson II
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varies
Jul 2000
time: 05:13
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Beör,
When playing heavy-builder style I don't trade tech with the AI until I'm good and ready. A couple of 'bad' trades will set you back 10 years or so in getting TFs up, and the snowball effect magnifies this an awful lot.
As a momentum player, I get my very short beelines done and then steal what I want, so the question is moot.
As a hybrid, this is one of the questions that can win or loose games for you. I am playing a game with Paul where my poor judgement has put me in a horrible positition techwise. He is the University and I am the Gaians, and I've had consistently more tech than him until last turn (2181), but he has made far more use of what he has. I underestimated the huge effect on my tech cost, leaving my plans dead in the water.
So know what sort of tech burden you can handle, and only trade for thing that you can directly use, would be my way of playing. The techs will still be there, just make sure you are in position to get hold of them (by hook or by crook .)
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Beör
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Copenhagen, Denmark
Aug 2000
time: 05:13
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Aaargh - double posted.
Sorry about that.
[This message has been edited by Beör (edited August 28, 2000).]
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Simpson II
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varies
Jul 2000
time: 05:13
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Beör,
It's difficult to describe how wrong that game went! I took a legitimate tech lead at the start, simply generating more RP than him from turn one; not bad considering that I do not and have never had a monolith or energy special in my empire, and that I wasn't able to use the only measly 3-square river until I built forests (every single square was flat!!)
However, at around 2150 I broke the golden rule: get Ind. Auto before trading beyond that. I was tempted away.. it took me until the 2170's to finally get it (probed from Morgan when I was 2 turns from getting it myself.)
The reason Santiago has all those techs is that I was 'coordinating' the AI research with the aim of getting to pre-sentient alg and the HSA, with fusion straight after. Several of them were heading in the right direction, they just needed someone to collate and spread tech about slightly. This is what tempted me.
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to deliver the tech rate to do what I wanted. There are a couple of reasons for this, not just the increased tech cost (which was horrific), but which I will not reveal for reasons of factional security . However, I've ended up ensuring that Paul can get fusion power by 2200 if he wants it, and he already has a SP in production, so he can change directly to the HSA. How would you like your game wrapped, sir?
If I had correctly estimated my future position then I could have done things very differently. A 'safe' bee-line, gaining techs as I needed them, and one or two other changes would still have made me no. 1 in tech, while giving me a viable position in other respects. Hindsight's a wonderful thing. Maybe next time.
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23-08-2000 13:38
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