16-12-2002 02:47									#1
	Senate Meeting on Poly, at this moment Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

We are having a senate meeting in the Civ3dem room on Poly server, right now.

Could we have as many members try to attend

E_T

	16-12-2002 02:49									#2
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Grrrr.

I'm five minutes away from leaving the house to go get a Christmas tree .

Ah well . If it lasts long enough, I'll try to catch the end. If not, have a ball .

-- adaMada

	16-12-2002 05:54									#3
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the meeting is over now.

We talked about what should be done about Pres. Aggie admission and we got one of the Senators to open a discussion on possible punishment (if the Senate so desires).

We talked about stratigy, Rome & Germany.

Whether any additional alliances against Rome will be needed and who they might possibly pull into against us. We feel that Rome should be treated as a defencive issue and not attack them (for now) unless they come across the border. That they might bring someone else in, but at a high cost and that we'll be ready. We beleave that the MPP's will be sufficient to keep Rome at bay for the time being and that we don't need to involve any other nations.

As for Germany, we discussed how we are to get the MPP's that we currently have, to activate against them. As far as anyone that attended knows, we'll need them to either attack them on our land or have tnem attack us, on our land, for the MPP's to activate. We aren't sure if they will activate when we invade them and Germany counterattacks us on their soil. We may have to declare and then let them attack us, before we can go after them. On this, we need further information.

Because, we have LPT tied to the current peace terms with Germany, AND because Germany has a large income from other Civs, we are uncertain as to whether Otto will let the peace terms ride or will want to renegotiate between 1255 and 1260 (D-Turn). We feel that he might let it ride for a turn or two. If this occurs, we fell that we should wait until we have RP (D-Turn plus 1) and have upgraded and have Artillary available (D-Turn plus 2) to actually declare.

On the other hand, if he does want to Renegotiate, we let the war begin on D-Turn, but don't attack immediately. We let him cross the boarder and we attack him on our ground, so that we are certain that the MPP's activate against him. this will allow us time to complete RP and maybe have the cannons upgraded to Artillary, too.

Or, if we are lucky, he comes in against us, siding with Rome. That way, we get the benifit of him declatring on us, and not the other way around. Or, better still, if he crosses our boarder and the same thing that happened with Rome (i.e., we tell him to leave, he declares, we attack on our land), happens with him, them we are set and the MPP's will activate the next turn.

These are the things that we had discussed and desided to present to the full senate and the FAM for evaluation, before we have the last gameplay of the term.

E_T

	16-12-2002 06:59									#4
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One day I don't log on to poly before the evening, and I miss a senate meeting. Oh well.

quote: Originally posted by E_T We aren't sure if they will activate when we invade them and Germany counterattacks us on their soil. We may have to declare and then let them attack us, before we can go after them. On this, we need further information.

Unless the rules are different for the AI (which I feel 99% sure they are NOT), they must attack us in our territory; if counter-attacks in your own territory activated them, we'd be at war with Rome's MPP partners now.

	16-12-2002 08:14									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep One day I don't log on to poly before the evening, and I miss a senate meeting. Oh well.

Same here

	16-12-2002 13:07									#6
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I should have asked this during the meeting, but it didn't occur to me.

How much will this affect our plan of cutting off Berlin if we let Otto attack us first, for example if he pillages our own rail lines on the way in? Will this put us even one more turn back as the explorers have to travel that extra square?

Providing this doesn't foul up our plans, I am all for war as soon as we need to renegotiate.

	16-12-2002 15:52									#7
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If Otto attacks us first on our own territory, then that activates our MPP's. However, by letting him attack first we give him an opportunity to cut off our supply lines (or in a laymans terms, our route to conquest).

The interesting factor here is that if Otto invades our territory (thereby activating our alliances), then we get the opportunity of taking on his forces in a field battle, in which case we could likely win. Any offensive unit he sends against us will surely be defeated, then once his offensive army is destroyed, we will be in a much better position to invade German territory.

I recall a time when as their first mission, I sent Shadow Service agents to Germany, whereas they reported back that the Germans were amassing a military on the border set to invade. At that time I was ridiculed (seemingly by some members of the DIA, coincedentally) for suggesting that Otto was anything but our friend.

Now we're set to invade HIM. Perhaps the Senate should have listened long ago and saved us the trouble,...but in the context, we were warring with Persia (and soon America), and this idea was tossed aside.

So this is where I get to say "I told you so...."

	16-12-2002 18:58									#8
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WB, that we can't say. If he desides to make a fast attack with Cav and pillage then we can't stop him. BUT, we can kill then the next turn and rebuild RR's, As long as it isn't taken down to the bare ground, we'll be o.k.

E_T