16-12-2002 06:14									#1
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I've been working on a mod and I had a couple of new ideas. I replaced the knight for the ottomans, persians, carthiginians, babylonians, and egyptians with an arab horseman I downloaded because those countries (not real sure about the ottomans) didn't have knights like Europe. I want to change the knights for the asian countries too, but only the Koreans don't already have a UU for the knight. So my first idea was to take the Samurai and have it replace the swordsman or medieval infantry. Which one should it replace and what should I change its stats too?

My next idea is about submarines. I increased the attack and defense of the submarines because they are the most powerful ships in real life (or at least modern submarines are). My idea though was to have it so they are detected a certain percentage of the time. Like the fighters only intercept a certain percentage. What do you think of my ideas?

	17-12-2002 00:49									#2
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I don't think that the submarine one will work, but more time is needed to digest the new information.

	17-12-2002 01:09									#3
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I think the submarine one would probably work if it could be implemented in to the game.

	18-12-2002 01:33									#4
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	18-12-2002 02:18									#5
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You can't modify the submarines that way. They're either invisible or they're not.

Simply put, the only way to counter them is with other ships that have the "detect invisibility" flag. That would include other subs, and Aegis cruisers.

I also mod my subs to make them stronger - especially the nuclear subs. Modern submarines are very hard for surface vessels to find and sink.

	18-12-2002 02:54									#6
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quote: Originally posted by SK138 My next idea is about submarines. I increased the attack and defense of the submarines because they are the most powerful ships in real life (or at least modern submarines are).

Nuclear submarines may be the most powerful in terms of nuclear strike capability... considering they can carry in the range of 24 medium-range ballistic missiles, but that does not mean they are the most potent weapons in naval combat.

I was under the impression it is the aircraft carrier. A screen of support-vessels with modern anti-submarine technology can limit the submarine to the bit-player.

	18-12-2002 04:07									#7
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You guys are partially right on subs, their attack modifier should be high, because they have the first strike capability in real life, it's after that strike that subs are in danger.

There are to kinds of sonar:

Passive: which is basically listening to the ocean for machinery noise. It makes no noise in itself.

Active: Which is actively sending out sound waves and waiting for them to bounce off of something, like the side of a submarine. This makes it a lot more likely to find something.

Most ships do not actively ping, because it also give range and bearing to the ship that is pinging. Thus, setting up a firing solution for a sub.

A sub that fires first will likely kill what it's firing at, after that ships will ping the hell out of the area to try and find it. Thus, a subs defense should not be increased.

They should have allowed a "first strike" option in the editor.

ACK!

	18-12-2002 05:15									#8
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About the Knights replacements....I think it would be neat to have different units for old stuff depending on geographical area, eve nif they had the same stats....Like the Arab horseman for example. I think there should be a replacement for the American Knights as well, seeing as they didn't even have horses until the Spanish came along

Maybe this is something Firaxis could implement in the next XP? And maybe have some units based off of the new units two.....Perhaps in a Medieval Europe scenario, the Saxons could be given a Guerrila (sp?) type unit based off of the Medieval Infantry. Or a modern warfare scenario could have 3rd world countries with upgraded Guerillas.

	18-12-2002 05:20									#9
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That is basically what I have been doing in my mod Switch. One of the units I am using for a knight is the Eastern Horse Archer. I am giving it to Korea and Japan. I am going to make the Samurai replace the medieval infantry, I just don't know what I should change its stats to. Any ideas?

	18-12-2002 05:38									#10
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Well, it mentions a lot about defence in it's pedia entry, so maybe 4/3/1, a Medi Infant with upped defence. It's really jsut a slower vanilla Samurai, but it's much cheaper (40, same as Medi Infant, as opposed to 70 for knights), and comes sooner.

It'll also make the Knight less overmodded with UUs

And since China would now no longer have a knight, would it also get that horse archer? (I assume your using that animation from the Japan unit pack?)

	18-12-2002 05:54									#11
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Actually, for the knight I am using the Eastern Horse Archer made Kryten, it looks really good. I didn't give it to China because they have the Rider UU that replaces the knight (I thought it replaced calvary, but it doesn't).

Also, I made my samurai temporarily a 4/4/1 costing 50, you think that is too powerful?

	19-12-2002 02:39									#12
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Actually.....yes, it is too powerful. That's the same stats as the Muskateer, but 10 shields less and available sooner. I think that 4/3/1 at 40 shields would be best, as it wouldn't be making the other UUs less powerful. That's my opinion.

And about that Asian thing.....I keep confusing the Chinese and Japanese UUs

Could you give me a link to that Eastern Horse Archer?

	19-12-2002 07:04									#13
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Here is the link:
http://www.civfanatics.net/files/ci...ion=file&id=152
There is also a good eastern pikeman at civfanatics, too. I used it for pikeman in eastern civs. Here is the link for that:
http://www.civfanatics.net/files/ci...ion=file&id=154

	20-12-2002 07:23									#14
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For the Korean knight replacement I use Hwarang

Hwarang history

And the "Shoni no Kagesuke" animation in the PTW extras Medieval Japan folder is what I use for it.