16-12-2002 10:18									#1
	Question for the gun experts: Best handgun cartridge? Get a bigger avatar today!

I was thinking of maybe buying a Springfield XD, it comes in .357 sig, 9mm, and .40 S&W

after comparing some ballistics it really like the performance of the .357 sig, however I was wondering what you think is best handgun cartridge, and not just for the XD, but for any handgun available

i appreciate all of your thoughts on this

	16-12-2002 12:32									#2
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We'll wait for MTG he's the ballistics expert

The problem I have is I haven't fired .357's and .40's. So I can't comment on them. I wanted to get a .40 cal but I really don't want to be one of those gun nuts that owns like 20 guns . 1 gun is enough for me. The only other thing I may consider buying is a revolver or a shotgun.

In any case 9 mm is a reliable round. Sometimes the velocity is too fast for such a small round. The round poses a risk of going right through someone and inuring an innocent bystander. For this reason I use hydroshok hollowpoints to transfer the maximum amount of kinetic energy into stopping power. Otherwise much of that kinetic energy is wasted.

	16-12-2002 13:10									#3
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Dissident

i was thinking of eventually getting like 2 hand guns, one nominally for self defense, with some target shooting, and that gun being some type of glock like pistol, the other being just something to go shoot around with like a beretta neo that is cheap and uses cheap ammo

for the self defense weapon i wanted something that doesn't have too much recoil, is accurate, and has good stopping power in jhp

	16-12-2002 13:17									#4
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yeah I have a Glock 17 btw. Nice little weapon. 9 mm. It has jammed a couple of times ejecting the cartridge. I don't like that obviously. It gets the round off which is the important part . But there may be a need to fire more than 1 round. So I don't have 100% confidence in my weapon. This was the only reason I was considering a revolver or shotgun for defense.

But a glock is a nice little weapons to mess around with at the shooting range. 17 round magazine

	16-12-2002 22:51									#5
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Dissident

how often has your glock jammed and have you ever heard of similar problems from other glock owners? how long have you owned your glock? i agree the 17 round mag is quite nice

	16-12-2002 23:03									#6
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It has jammed probably 3 or 4 times (I have fired probably 3 or 400 hundred rounds thru it). The 17 probably isn't regarded as their best model. I was thinking the .40 might be better. They also have another 9mm model- I think the glock 19 with a longer barrel.

	16-12-2002 23:17									#7
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Besides for killing another human, does it really matter what caliber?

Want knock down? try a .45

like gitting hit with a crowbar

	16-12-2002 23:19									#8
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In the Army I used to use a Berreta 9mm semi-automatic pistol. It was a good hand gun but required maticulas cleaning or it would jam. At the firing range it would often begin to give me trouble after the 3-4 magazine.

A friend of mine, who is a police officer, uses a Glock 19 which he swears by however if I was in the market for a pistol I would be buying a .45 calibre. The 45 is perfect for home defense. Sure, it is difficult to hit anything further then short range but if a burglar gets into your home the entire encounter is likely to occure at short range.

Plus if you shoot someone with a 9mm he is likely to get back up where as a man shot by a .45 will probably be carried out on a stretcher.

	16-12-2002 23:20									#9
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I have a shotgun for home defence.

Don't have to aim in the dark and if I do miss not much worry in hitting anyone nextdoor.

	16-12-2002 23:27									#10
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Talkin bout guns:
had a young man in the ER couple night ago shot in his penis, .25 cal. He is circumcised now

	16-12-2002 23:28									#11
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with that many jams for the number of times you've shot the gun i wouldn't trust it either, have you ever tried firing it with a variety of ammo to see if it is one particular bullet that is causing it to jam?

does anyone else have any thoughts on handgun cartridges?

	16-12-2002 23:37									#12
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sorry i went to get something to eat before i saw the other posts

Oerdin

have you ever tried a .40? how good are they, i've read good things about them but have yet to shoot one myself

Docfeelgood

i already have a shotgun
and that really sucks for that one guy, talk about painful!

	16-12-2002 23:59									#13
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I have a Glock 17, and it's never jammed. Best handgun I've ever owned - easy to shoot, and hard to miss with it. And, yes, the 17 round clip is very convenient.

The .9mm is probably not the most ideal round for overall accuracy AND stopping power. The S&W .40 seems to be the preferred size for law enforcement for that reason. A .45 is a cannon - I've had one, and it was a lot harder to keep on target than my .9mm. I also have a .357 revolver - also harder to target than the .9mm, but not as unwieldy as a .45

	17-12-2002 03:27									#14
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guns suck!

stupid conservative gunfreaks:

hunting is ok every once in a while, people having 1 handgun i can live with, but no one should own multiple firearms...

	17-12-2002 03:51									#15
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jdd2007

thanks for the bump if nothing else

	17-12-2002 05:55									#16
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quote: Originally posted by jdd2007 guns suck! stupid conservative gunfreaks: hunting is ok every once in a while, people having 1 handgun i can live with, but no one should own multiple firearms...

An armed society is a polite society.

	17-12-2002 06:03									#17
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quote: Originally posted by korn469 jdd2007 thanks for the bump if nothing else

no problem

*bump*

	17-12-2002 06:05									#18
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I wasn't brought up to earn respect through the implicit threat of force, but there you go....

	17-12-2002 06:05									#19
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quote: Originally posted by FNBrown An armed society is a polite society.

thats why people in the US are so kind

	17-12-2002 06:25									#20
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If you are just going to spam this thread... don't bother.

	17-12-2002 06:35									#21
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[last post in the thread]

ok, ming

[last comment before leaving]

stupid gunfreaks...

	17-12-2002 06:38									#22
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quote: Originally posted by jdd2007 [last post in the thread]

And you last post for the next 24 hours... you should really learn to take warnings seriously...

	17-12-2002 13:30									#23
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actually my gun hasn't jammed recently. Maybe it just needed a break in period like a new car . I did buy the gun new. It hasn't jammed since the first 2 I fired it- one at an indoor range, the other at Thanksgiving in my cousins back yard (this is on a farm outside the city and town). That was in really cold conditions. It fired well there, except it was so cold my hand was shaking . My aim was real bad.

I've only fired shotguns, .45's and 9mm.

The .40 really seemed like it was the best of both worlds. And I still think it might be a good choice. But it might be best for someone who has actually fired one or owned one to post. A .40 is a larger round than 9mm, but not overkill like a .45. Glock also has a .40 cal model.

	17-12-2002 16:11									#24
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.357 Sig is a bit expensive (my piece of choice is a Sig-Sauer P229 in .357 Sig), but it is all around the best performing pistol round.

I used to have a Beretta 92F (M9) with the pre-BS 15 round clip, which I replaced with a constant tension spring 18 rounder.

9mm Para has plenty of stopping power if you use Winchester silver-tip hollowpoints or Glasers. For personal defense in a high-density urban environment, like apartments with sheetrock walls, I wouldn't use anything more than a 9mm with Glasers.

.40 S&W is a good round - intermediate between 9mm which is a nice lady's round, and .45 ACP, which is a sum*****. The reason .40 S&W is a common law enforcement round has more to do with lobbying and contracting than anything to do with any claimed ballistic superiority. .40 is nothing exciting, just mid-way between 9mm and .45 - that's really all there is to it.

.357 Sig is really the best of all worlds, IMO - more kinetic energy, more energy transfer to target, better accuracy, better muzzle velocity, so you get less accuracy falloff at range, kick is more than the 9mm (which is virtually kickless for me firing with either hand), but comparable to .40 S&W.

The necked case increases feed reliability, and after early overpenetration problems with the 125 grain JHP rounds were worked out, tactical performance is at least as good as any other round in any category, and overall, the .357 Sig beats every other round in all-around tactical versatility (stopping power, accuracy at range, penetration of auto steel or tempered glass, lowest jam rate (essentially jamless in a properly maintained piece), rapid fire capability, ease of shooting)

.357 Sig is ballistically similar to the .357 Magnum revolver round, but with the Sig-Sauer and Glock autos, you have much better sidearms, so the overall combination favors the .357 Sig. I've fired .357 Mag from an S&W model 19 (piece of ****), an S&W model 28 (the N-frame from the model 29 Dirty Harry special, but with .357 chambering instead of .44 mag) and a Ruger new model Blackhawk.

Depending on your exact needs and wants, there's a very good range of ammo available from 90 grain to 147 grain (that I know of), so you can up or down tune the .357 Sig to get exactly what you want in performance.

	17-12-2002 19:00									#25
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Interesting post. Hopefully I'll be able to get as well considered opinions when I finally purchase a firearm sometime in the future (I wont be able to convince my wife to let me have one until I'm too decrepit to defend myself without one :whipped: )

BTW while I think handguns are fun for plinking, nothing beats a shotgun for home defense.

	17-12-2002 23:47									#26
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MichaeltheGreat

thanks for the info! it seemed like the .357 sig was the best, but i wasn't sure, also can you tell me anything about handguns with a ported barrel? do they really help with recoil? and what about accuracy or kinetic energy? would they hurt the performance of the bullet in any way?

	18-12-2002 14:23									#27
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SpencerH - depending on the lethality potential of the situation, I use anything from a Japanese sword to an 18" Ang Khola (I also have a 16", they make a real nice pair ), to the Sig.

The one time I used a firearm in a home defense situation was with a semi-auto CAR 15 with a 30 round clip. Simply showing the piece (aimed through the glass of the back patio door right at the guy's nose) was enough to reach an understanding with the would be burglar, who made world record speed getting out of my yard. He also apparently broke a few ribs on the wrought iron fence getting out back.

korn - I think ported barrels are more hype than anything. If you hand load, you can just go for a lighter load or a powder change, and if you buy factory loads, you don't have to go for the 90 grain 1800 fps rounds.

The only way you can reduce recoil is with mass, or reduced kinetic energy from the round. For revolvers, the S&W model 28 solves the problems of the model 19 by putting .357 guts in a .44 mag frame. Barrel length and mass changes really don't do much in comparison to KE changes by playing with the powder load - but you do suffer loss of muzzle velocity and some loss of penetration when you alter the muzzle exhaust or change the powder load or type.

Accuracy at pistol tactical engagement ranges wouldn't be affected, but to me, I'd prefer hand loading light ammo, rather than a permanent change to the pistol design, in case I needed that velocity and penetration. In 99+% of home defense situations, though, the extra velocity and penetration wouldn't be important.

You might have to screw around with JHP rounds and test them against gelatin targets, or look for test reports, because the fragmentation and expansion of JHP rounds is very dependent on velocity.

	18-12-2002 16:44									#28
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You could also just tough it out and learn to handle the heavier loads. I'm not a large man, but I've never had any trouble with recoil in a handgun. My current fave is a Sig P-245 which is really a cut down P-220. I shoot 230 grain ball ammo, and recoil is not bad. Even my girlfriend can shoot through a box of 50 without troubles. Unless you are going to shoot heavy .44 magnum loads out of a cut down carry revolver you shouldn't really have any trouble handling most combat cartridges. Just practice a bit with them. If you ever really need your weapon in a combat situation I'm sure that your adrenelin will easily overcome the effects of the recoil.

	18-12-2002 17:39									#29
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat SpencerH - depending on the lethality potential of the situation, I use anything from a Japanese sword to an 18" Ang Khola (I also have a 16", they make a real nice pair ), to the Sig. The one time I used a firearm in a home defense situation was with a semi-auto CAR 15 with a 30 round clip. Simply showing the piece (aimed through the glass of the back patio door right at the guy's nose) was enough to reach an understanding with the would be burglar, who made world record speed getting out of my yard. He also apparently broke a few ribs on the wrought iron fence getting out back.

I have a Japanese sword too, but my favorite is a gerber mkII. The khukuri is too much of a slashing weapon for my tastes, although its size is likely to deter most idiots. That kind of fits in with the benefits of a shotgun over a handgun. Point a shotgun at someone and they'll pay attention.