18-12-2002 06:50									#31
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No need to each post our GMT time, as it is written next to our avatar. If we have set it up in our profile, it should write time: (insert time here). This is in fact the actual time where the person lives...

--Kon--

P.S. I'm GMT -5...

	18-12-2002 14:58									#32
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I don't have PtW (yet) so can't take part , and so I have a question: for those of us who'd like to see how the game progresses, what are the possibilities for posting very out of date game saves for people to look at? I know that the saves are password protected in PBEM, but is it remotely possible to find a way to set up an old save so that the game state for all players is visible? Or do we have to rely on the goodwill of players to publish reports of what had been going on, some time after the event?

	18-12-2002 15:03									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Konquest02 No need to each post our GMT time, as it is written next to our avatar. If we have set it up in our profile, it should write time: (insert time here). This is in fact the actual time where the person lives... --Kon-- P.S. I'm GMT -5...

I don't think that that is what VenomLord meant - rather that everyone should post the GMT times they can usually play the game so that the turn order can be set up so that the game progresses smoothly (so someone who can play 10:00-12:00 GMT comes after someone who can play 07:00-08:00 GMT, rather than before).

	18-12-2002 15:32									#34
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Vulture's right. For example, I do turns at 5am and 4pm which fits me nicely between European and North American players. No offense, but I suspect some of the college students who play would regard those hours as insane.

	18-12-2002 21:29									#35
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quote: For example, I do turns at 5am and 4pm which fits me nicely between European and North American players.

Those hours are insane!!!!

I should be able to be pretty flexible. I am on break until Jan 20 or so, and then I only have college. What do you think I've been doing at school?????

	18-12-2002 22:47									#36
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Ok, thanks for the clarification vulture... I'm on break until Jan 13, then I'm back to my "beloved" physics!!

--Kon--

	18-12-2002 22:58									#37
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"What do you think I've been doing at school?????"

I have been to school. I know what happens at school. I can imagine what you are doing at school. So, I'm naturally worried about you.

	18-12-2002 23:03									#38
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quote: I have been to school. I know what happens at school. I can imagine what you are doing at school. So, I'm naturally worried about you.

I appreciate the concern. I am trying to study for finals right now, but I'm having trouble concentrating. I might not have any time constraints on me when we start PBEM.

	06-01-2003 21:33									#39
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I guess we'll be starting this soon.

I can usually play my turn any time, except between 6 a.m. and 2 p.m. GMT, (1am-9am EST).

When we are ready to start, I would like us to use a special version of the AU mod for any game that is going to use a mod. The current mod (1.14) has some experimantal changes that might not make it past the current AU game (corruption changes to Despotism and Communism).

Also, this MP AU mod would include strategy-enhancing elements that we have left out of the SP mod because they handicap the AI (wheeled tanks, cruise missiles fired by subs, more powerful ground artillery, et cetera).

By the way, will the games include any AI civs?

	06-01-2003 22:03									#40
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I'm tempted to go out and buy PTW just for this, but I really can't. I did get the civ board game for Christmas. It comes with MP!

	06-01-2003 23:57									#41
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I'd love to try a PBEM game, but with my new baby, I can't always guarantee "timely" play.

Anyone up for a "slow" game?

	07-01-2003 00:09									#42
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Happy to have you. I'm sure you will respond better than most.

Hey, I'm a new grandfather and I can't tell you how happy it makes me to watch the baby put his father through all the same hoops he put me through years ago.

What you want to do is set up a rocking chair strategically beside your computer so you can play pbem at the same time you try to put the baby back to sleep.

	07-01-2003 00:10									#43
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I'm ready.


Dominae

	07-01-2003 00:13									#44
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My PC chair rocks enough for that, which I already do, sometimes.

It's typing with 2 fingers from 1 hand that's difficult. And using the mouse when he's wiggly.


Anyway, I'll do my damnedest to respond in a timely manner, but I don't have any "set" time to play.
Mornings from 7am to 11am CST(I think GMT -5 or -6) I often have a bit of time, though, if it matters.



Also, are we having AIs? If so, what level? Did I miss that part?

	07-01-2003 00:48									#45
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I'd be with you Ducki to play a "slow" PBEM game as most of my time will be taken by my studies (I am not into getting childs yet!). I should have PTW by next thursday. My dispo hours are between 6 pm and 10 pm but it really depends on my school schedule, which is pretty variable over the days... But I'm sure we can manage something...

	07-01-2003 00:58									#46
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Realistically, that slow game would work best for me too. I'm in with Konquest and Ducki, if that is ok.

	07-01-2003 01:10									#47
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If I can fit into the "normal" game, that's cool.
I didn't want to steal players from the thread.

Hell, I just wanted to not overcommit, since I can't promise a turn every day.
Now I feel a bit of a heel.

	07-01-2003 04:30									#48
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I will gladly participate. I can play after work (6pm-midnight GMT or 1pm-7pm Apolyton time/EST) and at weekends almost fulltime. I like fast games, have enough lame duck games running, so please don't stick me in a slow group.

I'm strongly against AIs in the games. They do only bad for MP games, whore maps and techs around and due to their weakness in the early game their presence could be a grow-and-extort bonus for one player and their absence a penalty for the other. No AIs please. It's MP.

	07-01-2003 05:10									#49
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Im in.

	07-01-2003 05:55									#50
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I would like to propose a "soft 1/turn day" rule; basically, you try your very best to play at least 1 turn per day, and hopefully post a reason on a thread here on 'Poly why you expect to hold up for more.

I would love to have all the regulars on the strat forum involved, but the harsh reality of PBEM games is that they take forever to play. Anything less than a reasonable pace would not really be worth even the minimal effort for me.


Dominae

	07-01-2003 07:29									#51
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I'm willing to try to do 1 per day, and if I can't keep up, I'll retire and start a slowbie game with anyone else that can't keep up.

I also want to play with the Strat forum regulars - I'm sure I'll learn some great lessons - but am not willing to hold the game up because my schedule gets in the way.

	07-01-2003 09:36									#52
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I can do one turn a day, but I won't be able to sit down on the weekends and get through 10 turns on a Saturday. I usually have to work then, with school and all. But one a day is ok.

	07-01-2003 11:51									#53
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I too, don't want to be in a slow game. Playing three turns per day, for example, is fine by me.

The AU has never really been about competition, it has been about learning. In this spirit, I would like to have players keep a log (and screenshots) of their progress, with the intention of posting an AAR in the strategy forum. After it has ended, each game would get its own thread, and everyone would benefit from reading about the game from all players' angles. Ideally, posters in the strategy forum would comment on the lessons learned from the game.

I don't necessarily agree that all the games should be without the AI, but it's OK with me either way. Sure it's unbalancing to have an AI neighbor while others don't, but so is getting stuck on a jungle island or next to a human neighbor who wants to archer-rush you, while others have two cattle next to their capital and a cooperative trade partner. I think the AI is an integral part of Civ3 strategy.

However, if we do play without AI, I would like to see the following changes, which add strategic depth but could not be added to the standard AU mod because they handicap the AI:

1) Add wheeled ability to Tank, Panzer, Mech. Infantry, Modern Armor, Artillery, Radar Artillery. This was recently removed from the mod because it handicaps the AI (just like continents do).

2) Increase movement of radar artillery by 1. Also removed from the AU mod because the AI doesn't know how to effectively use artillery.

3) Ground Artillery units back to zero defensive strength. This was added in the SP AU mod to protect the AI from having its artillery captured.

4) Submarines and AEGIS cruisers can carry 1 Cruise Missile. The AI doesn't know to load units with the AI strategy "Cruise Missile".

5) Ironclads use 2 movement points to enter Ocean, and cost (original) 80 shields. Frigates have one extra movement point (5). So the player can choose between a fast, lightly-armed ship versus a slower, heavily-armed one. This used to be part of the AU mod, but the AI did not handle escorting duties well, so we removed it.

	07-01-2003 12:23									#54
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Great suggestion about the game logs, alexman. This way, when I face my humiliating defeat, I'll get something out of it (hopefully!).

The changes you mention are all natural. Perhaps a PBEM version of the mod could be made, for use strictly with all-human games.

The artillery change would be a welcome sight, to tell you the truth. Although I agree with the reasons to do this in SP games, I'm not happy about winning defensive battles with artillery units alone. It takes quite a while for the AI to knock out 20 Artillery from an otherwise undefended city. My AU203 game is proof.


Dominae

	07-01-2003 13:28									#55
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quote: Originally posted by alexman 5) Ironclads use 2 movement points to enter Ocean, and cost (original) 80 shields. Frigates have one extra movement point (5). So the player can choose between a fast, lightly-armed ship versus a slower, heavily-armed one. This used to be part of the AU mod, but the AI did not handle escorting duties well, so we removed it.

Changes are fine with me, although there is a better solution for the galley and ironclad problem. In fact, historically both were ships for coastal regions only, none of them was designed for open seas. So why not add the wheeled attribute to both and make ocean impassable for wheeled units. This would make it completely impossible to enter ocean with galleys and ironclads.

	07-01-2003 18:46									#56
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If you do that to galleys, then the Great Lighthouse becomes almost useless for discovering new continents. That's historically accurate, but it's a big change, hence probably not for the AU mod.

But your suggestion is certainly an option for ironclads, although the unit in the game is meant to include early battleships (which were better at ocean crossings), especially since we moved it to later in the tech tree.

	08-01-2003 02:08									#57
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Strat Forum PBEM One

Sir Ralph
Alexman
Dominae
Trickey

I've emailed these four for the first game. We will see if PBEM chokes on the AU mod or something and wait another day or so for others to respond to the first invitation, and then start game(s) with the remaining players.

If these four guys are ready, I would be happy to act as moderator for the first game and hope we get a couple of people to do this necessary function for other games. My sense is that a tiny map, with the largest land pangea setting and no AI civs, probably on Emperor, will be a good framework. Whatever players decide, however.

If each player sends all saves to the moderator, as well as to the next player, and if we start a thread to post the turns for each game, we can make the games go well. The moderator can play turns for people who are absent temporarily.

Another moderator service that helps is to examine the starting positions and advocate a restart if someone gets completely screwed. With a significant time commitment needed to complete, it is to everybody’s best interest to have a reasonably competitive start.

Game players should decide the order of play among themselves. It is a critical decision because the right order makes the game go smoothly and the wrong order makes it bog down.

To keep sensitive email addresses private, you can contact each other initially via personal message or using the email option on the tread.

Last edited by jshelr on 08-01-2003 at 02:14

	08-01-2003 02:56									#58
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Thanks jshelr!

I made a thread for this first game in the PBEM forum.

	08-01-2003 03:46									#59
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Yep, thank jshelr! Now we need to get you involved in one of these...


Dominae

	08-01-2003 03:55									#60
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As our hero's right hand man says in Gladiator, Not yet. Not yet.