08-01-2003 02:53									#1
	Strat Forum PBEM: Game 1 Increase Your PM Length

This thread is for the first game of the Strat Forum PBEMs, which uses an MP version of the AU Mod.

Participants (in order of play):
Alexman : Egyptians
Dominae : Americans
Sir Ralph : French
jshelr : Iroquois

Settings:
Emperor level
Culturally-linked starts off
Accelerated Production off
Small (80x80)
Pangaea
70% Water
Normal
Temperate
4 Billion
Roaming Barbs

Last edited by alexman on 14-01-2003 at 12:00

	08-01-2003 03:09									#2
	Inflate your Upload Space

Well, I can try to play a 2nd turn before work, but sometimes I don't have the 10 mins in the morning... I am well known for sleeping till the last possible minute (that comes from being up till the last possible minute) and I have gotten caught several times being late at work . Some day this might get me in serious trouble.

	08-01-2003 03:18									#3
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

As for the settings:

My votes for 4 players are: Small map, no AI, and a mod that has proven to be good in the past. Not the latest one. The less changes from the original game, the better. Changes that were designed to improve the AI can be taken back. Increase and balance out ship movement. The 2-move rule on ocean for galley and ironclad is ok I guess. May be increase the strength of bombardement. I would not make resources more scarce than they already are. And the Military Academy should not demand a victorious army, but come with Military Tradition. May be an extra rule, no alliances between more than 2 players, but I'm not sure on this.

	08-01-2003 03:26									#4
	Put an end to popups!

No pressure SR. Even one turn per day would be amazing!

Thanks for the suggestions. Two comments: The Military Academy change is already in the mod. Also, I think if we play 4 civs on a small map, we should make strategic resources more scarce, since that map is normally for 6 players. If we play on a tiny map, that's another matter.

	08-01-2003 03:54									#5
	Got spare money?

Aren't the resources given per civ and not depending on map size? I remember playing on huge maps with 8 civs and having to road 15-20 tiles just to hook up horses. Not only once, by the way, but often.

	08-01-2003 03:56									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

You may be right. I'm testing that as we speak.
If there's any doubt, we won't make any change.

	08-01-2003 03:59									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

Another thought... is it really worth to increase ship movement on a substandard map?

	08-01-2003 04:00									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

My votes:

Map: Small, Pangea
Barbs: Roaming
Resources: Reduced
Difficulty: Emperor or Monarch (first preferred)

Mod: AU mod, with modifications (see below)
Turns/Day: I can play at least 2, subject to my time zone (GMT-5).

Civ: Americans, Aztecs, Iroquois (in that order)


As for the mod, I would like to see these changes from 1.14:

1. Governments as in stock Civ3, with Problematic corruption and Worker speed of 3 for Communism.

2. Artillery unit HPs as in stock Civ3 (no HPs).

3. All OCN and corruption changes removed.


Dominae

	08-01-2003 04:11									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

A heretic idea. Call me crazy, but... What about speeding the game up by starting 3000BC instead of 4000BC, reducing the # of turns in the 50-year period from 25 to 5, and give everyone 2 settlers, 1 worker and 3 warriors (the expansionists 2 scouts, 2 warriors). I know that in other PBEM games (esp. CTP) it's common to give players "start packs".

	08-01-2003 04:23									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The resources are indeed proportional to the number of civs.

If we reduce resources by 25%, we would get about one iron and one horse resource for each one of us. Somebody would likely end up without one or more of them. Good for killer AI generation, bad for MP human enjoyment.

As for the radical idea of starting at 3000 B.C., if you want, sure, but the beginning is my favorite part of the game!

Dominae, changing the corruption model to something other than "communal" for Communism would be a big change that we have not tested. Let's just leave Communism as 1.14 for now (without the 1/3 corruption reduction).

	08-01-2003 04:24									#11
	Support Apolyton

I vote against. I would like to see this game go by fast, but I like the flow of the game as in stock Civ3.


Dominae

	08-01-2003 04:26									#12
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

alexman, sorry for the confusion. I mean Problematic for Republic, and increased Worker speed for Communism. All the government changes were mostly made to change the AI, and I think these two just try to balance things out for the human player.


Dominae

	08-01-2003 04:37									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

As you wish, I don't insist, but ... usually we use the time till 3000BC to build in average ... one settler and 3 warriors! It may be even a bit more balancing, if one gets bad terrain.

	08-01-2003 05:12									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I updated the standard AU mod (1.15) to remove the corruption changes. Here is what I propose to change compared to that mod:

code:


------------------------------------------------------------------------
                     APOLYTON UNIVERSITY MP MOD 1.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 (based on Apolyton University mod v1.15)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This the multi-player version of the Apolyton University mod, used in
Play-by-Email games. 

Most of the changes in this mod were made in order to provide deeper
strategy in multi-player games, but were not included in the standard AU 
mod because they handicap the AI.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The changes listed below are compared to the standard AU mod.

GROUND UNITS
------------

Action:  Added Wheeled ability to Tank, Panzer, Mech. Infantry, Modern 
         Armor, Artillery, Radar Artillery.
Reason:  To give Paratroopers, Marines, and air and naval support more 
         improtance.
Comment: Increases realism. You still move these units on enemy roads.
         Not added to standard AU mod because it restricts AI strategy.

Action:  Ground Artillery units have zero defensive strength.
Reason:  To change as little as possible
Comment: The AI uses artillery mainly for city defense and often has
         them captured. Humans should have no such problems.

Action:  Increased movement of Radar Artilery by 1. 
         Requires oil and rubber in addition to aluminum.
Reason:  To keep up with mobile modern units on offense.
Comment: Artillery should at least keep up with Mech. Infantry. 

NAVAL UNITS
-----------

Action:  Submarines and AEGIS cruisers can now carry 1 Cruise Missile
Reason:  To enhance realism, and to strengthen all of these units.
Comment: The AI does not know how to load units with the AI strategy
         "cruise missile". Cruise missiles are fired from ships and
         submarines in real life.

Action:  Ironclads use 2 movement points to enter Ocean.
         Increased movement of Frigate and Man-O-War by 1.
         Reduced cost of Ironclads by 20 (original).
Reason:  So Ironclads don't make Frigates obsolete.
Comment: Frigates are cheap, fast ships, while Ironclads are mainly for
         coastal bombardment and Galleon escort.

GLOBAL CHANGES
--------------

Action:  Appearance ratio of all strategic resources back to standard.
Reason:  To prevent a player from having no access to a resource.
Comment: AI civs without access to resources can be conquered easier, 
         leaving fewer but stronger opponents. This is not a desired
         effect in human-only play.

	08-01-2003 05:54									#15
	Remove this text

Sounds good, let us play.


Dominae

	08-01-2003 09:39									#16
	Full PM-box? Change here!

We'll play as soon as we decide on civs. Where's Trickey?

	08-01-2003 23:29									#17
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Just to bump this thread: I take France.

And yes: Where's Trickey??? This is supposed to be a fast playing group!

	08-01-2003 23:41									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

My preferences were 1) Americans, and 2) French. I guess the strat. forum has influenced us all in the same way! We all think alike.

I'll take Egypt then.

I PMed Trickey last night and he was online this morning but didn't read the PM. Three civs on a tiny map, anyone?

	09-01-2003 00:20									#19
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

If he does not show, I'll jump in here and we could add him to game two.

Question: what is the land relationship between tiny map with max pangea land and small map with, say, middle continents.

	09-01-2003 00:34									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I would guess they are about the same. But the distance between civs (as given in the editor) is greater for a small map than it is for a tiny map.

Welcome jshelr! Thanks for stepping in. I updated the initial post. I'll send the game to Dominae soon.

	09-01-2003 00:56									#21
	Get a bigger avatar today!

A couple of things to keep in mind for PBEM games to work properly (although you probably all know this):

1) Always load the game from the Multiplayer screen, not as you do a SP game. Make sure that Accelerated Production is off each time.

2) Never save your game before you have ended your turn. If you do that, when you reload, you will have already gone through a turn of production.

	09-01-2003 01:15									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

4000 B.C. sent to Dominae

Diplomacy question: are we allowed to do things that we can't do within the game? For example, are we allowed to communicate with other players before we meet them in the game? Can we exchange minimaps before we have MapMaking? Can we have alliances without an embassy?

I vote no to all.

	09-01-2003 01:31									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

No is correct. But people are violating those rules and there is going to be trouble in other games.

	09-01-2003 02:15									#24
	Increase the size of your Attachments

We should create some kind of Strategy forum codex. It should include to respect these rules (diplomacy only after making contact, using the in-game features for diplomacy) and to load the game in a correct way.

	09-01-2003 02:45									#25
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Sir R

Guys in the PBEM forum came up with the following common sense approach that could provide raw material for your codex

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=66088

	09-01-2003 03:43									#26
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Are we to use this thread to indicate when we've sent the turn off to the next person? Personally, this process does nothing for me, as I check my mail and 'Poly at the same time.

I'll send the turn off in a few...

Good luck to all!


Dominae

	09-01-2003 03:47									#27
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Yes, please use this thread (that's primarily why I created it), because even if it's redundant in letting you know that it's your turn, it helps keep track of the save, and to plan when your turn might be.

	09-01-2003 04:07									#28
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by jshelr Guys in the PBEM forum came up with the following common sense approach that could provide raw material for your codex

Interesting, but I think this is (a) way too complicated and (b) is designed for CivCtP. Parts of it may be used, but that needs a lot of work.

	09-01-2003 04:47									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Sent to Sir Ralph.

	09-01-2003 05:02									#30
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph We should create some kind of Strategy forum codex. It should include to respect these rules (diplomacy only after making contact, using the in-game features for diplomacy) and to load the game in a correct way.

Yes sir! At your command!
I put one up in the strat forum. Let me know what you think.