16-12-2002 22:10									#1
	Demographic breakdown Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

All these are comparisons are for...
EDIT: updated for 1910 B.C.

Approval Rating: 50%, rank: 4
(ie: all our citizens are content) Several teams have now either linked up a luxury, built temples, or has their entertainment slider bumped up; a couple have done so just recently--last update (9 turns ago), we were #2. Which it is would be hard to say, just one happy citizen would put someones approval rating above ours.

Population: 156000, rank: 4
Last update (9 turns ago) we were at 128000 and 1st place. The settler for Sarragossa and Madrid's recent worker have affected that number, and REX will continue to do so.

GNP: 20 million (ie: 20 commerce/turn), rank: 2
From about 16 turns ago, we were in 5th place with 8 commerce. We have significantly improved since then even with 3 teams currently ahead in population and, presumably, population points. Also, last turn we were at 19 gold/turn and still maintained #2.

Mfg. Goods: 11 megatons (shields), rank: 4
Last turn, we had 12 shields/turn and were #2. We have dropped due to the workers completion, IIRC, and our drop in rank suggests that several teams are hovering right around the same shield output we are. However, they are possibly doing so with less cities.

Land Area: 4900 sq. miles (49 tiles), rank: 2
We know that Lego has its fourth (maybe fifth city) going now. It is possible that ND just caught up with us this turn... though that has not been confirmed yet. Madrid will expand its culture borders soon (7 turns, IIRC) and add to this number.

Literacy: 0%, rank: 1 ...No change
No one has knowledge-based improvements... yet.

Disease: 6%, rank: 4
We now have jungles tiles within our culture border near Saragossa. Though, from the looks of it, we are not the worst off in this category.

Pollution: 0%, rank: 1 ...No change
No tiles polluted. Everyone is the same, I'm sure.

Life Expectancy: 20 years (minimum), rank: 4
We were #2 for along time, but since the last update (9 turns ago) we have dropped to fourth. This suggests that several teams now have granaries in one city or another. ND had pottery from the beginning. GS has logged some impressive growth with their capital recently. Lego wouldn't have a reason not to and growth has come fairly quickly, but this is all speculation.

Family Size: 1 children (2 food surplus=1), rank: 1
We at #5 with one child as recently as 9 turns ago. Granaries could be making it easier for teams to prioritize shield production without sacrificing REX.

Military Service: 11 years, rank: 4... No change
This stat is somewhat too dependent on population. We are still average in comparison to GoW and ND and strong compared to Lux.

Annual Income: 1 per capita, rank: 4
This is still not clear. IIRC, we are netting 2 commerce for the treasury this turn. If it is related to the # of city pop. points and GNP, we are at 7 and 20, respectively. Anyway, we have slipped to #$, down from #2 nine turns ago.

Productivity: 39, rank: 3
Up from 27 and #5 at last update. Last turn we were at 40 and #2. We must have been tied with whoever is second now. We dropped due to the production of the worker but with some compensation by growth at Barcelona.
.

Last edited by ruby_maser on 04-02-2003 at 03:49

	16-12-2002 22:47									#2
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WOW. Cool. Thanks.

	17-12-2002 00:04									#3
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Great Demographic report, ruby_maser! I have been hoping for something like this.

	17-12-2002 01:09									#4
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Very interesting, ruby_maser

	17-12-2002 03:05									#5
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This is great

	17-12-2002 04:30									#6
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What is productivity? Is it the sum of all surpluses in shields and food and commerce?

	17-12-2002 04:47									#7
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quote: Originally posted by pikesfan What is productivity? Is it the sum of all surpluses in shields and food and commerce?

ruby_maser explained this in the 3550 Bc thread:

quote: Originally posted by ruby_maser From some stuff I was reading about the demographics, production is figured as the total of all commerce, food, and shields produced by your cities minus the food consumed that turn.

So in 3400 BC...

Gold: 5
Shield: 3
Food: 8
Eaten: -4
----------------------
Production: 12

	17-12-2002 10:26									#8
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quote: at best, no more than 7.

How can you tell this?

	17-12-2002 11:02									#9
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus How can you tell this?

mathematically, they cant be more than a certain ammount, given the ammount of turns theyve had, and the best possible land they could have.

i dont know if 7 is the max a team can have made by now.. but im not doing the math. its possible

	17-12-2002 21:00									#10
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus How can you tell this?

Well, you are right. There is the possibility of more money to be made, but realisticly, 7 is probably the limit right now.

Besides wine (because it provides a food bonus that would help to maintain REX) or elephants (because they are often situated in plains that can still provide 2 food/turn), no other luxury provide adequate food for growth combined with the added commerce bonus. Terrain restrictions prevent them from doing so. So, anyone utilizing anything but wine or elephants would be hurting their own growth at this point (which does not seem to be the case since everyone became size 2 at the expansion of their borders).

Also, luxuries are the only source of early commerce levels beyond 2 gold/turn per tile which comes with rivers. However, no one has linked up any resources at this time or their Approval Rating would be higher than 50%. Most teams also have industrious workers so, if anyone had access to wine or elephants in their city radii that would allow them to get the commerce bonus and still keep up with REX, they should have been able to complete a road to them by now.

So, knowing this, I would have to say that the best a team could have at this point would be a river city with 3 commerce in the city-tile +2 river tiles producing 2 gold each = 7 gold/turn. There are ways to get more, but they are growth-prohibitive.

	17-12-2002 21:33									#11
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Unless they don´t want to road their luxuries yet

	17-12-2002 21:44									#12
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Very Informative, Thanks.

	27-12-2002 05:07									#13
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*bump*

this has been updated for 3200 BC. I will continue to update it as long as some relevant info can be gleaned from it about where we stand in the world.

I sure wish we could steal other teams, though, or ask nice and have them just hand theirs over

	27-12-2002 05:31									#14
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Instead of editing, why not have a new post and call it Demographics 3200 BC? The historical information for 3700 BC is now lost. How are our historians going to know what conditions were like in 3700 BC?

	27-12-2002 10:19									#15
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quote: Originally posted by pikesfan Instead of editing, why not have a new post and call it Demographics 3200 BC? The historical information for 3700 BC is now lost. How are our historians going to know what conditions were like in 3700 BC?

Perhaps an equally appropriate idea would be to have a new post for each year in a thread where it is requested that citizens do not post? Personally, I have no problem with either the way it is or pikesfan's suggestion, but I fear that Pikefan's suggestion will keep our front page rather full, and the present system will become very confusing, especially if there is no seperating post so we can know what comments refer to what year.

-- adaMada

	27-12-2002 11:35									#16
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quote: Originally posted by pikesfan Instead of editing, why not have a new post and call it Demographics 3200 BC? The historical information for 3700 BC is now lost. How are our historians going to know what conditions were like in 3700 BC?

[OOC]

in a roleplaying sense...in this Ancient age, there is no way the records would last as long as we could keep them in our modern digital age. We would have to "lose" them sooner or later. I think its best that it be edited, atleast untill we reach an age better known for record keeping.

Heck, this is information that, logically, we shouldnt have.

	27-12-2002 11:39									#17
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Have the top post with links to the Demographics in the later posts in the thread...

E_T

	15-01-2003 21:28									#18
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*bump*

Updated for 2550 BC.

	15-01-2003 21:53									#19
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ruby_maser,

the land area should be 30 tiles (21+9).

It is almost certain that ND has founded the 3rd city.

What are the conditions for the second city to expand the cultural border ?

	15-01-2003 21:59									#20
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quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT the land area should be 30 tiles (21+9).

You're right, Señor DAVOUT. Thank you. I had the 3000 sq. miles right but I forgot to update the amount of tiles. I'll make it so.

quote: What are the conditions for the second city to expand the cultural border ?

Culture. For us, Pamplona won't go anywhere until we get a temple in there.

	15-01-2003 22:01									#21
	Re: Demographic breakdown Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Great! We have the best intelligence in Apolitonia
It's time to coordinate an Intelligence Center!

quote: Originally posted by ruby_maser All these are comparisons are for... EDIT: updated for 2550 B.C. Land Area: 3000 sq. miles (21 tiles), rank: 3 Two teams (at least) currently have either as little as 2 cities with full city radii or 3 cities. ND is one with 3 cities, IIRC.

One of them is ND, no doubt, with three cities.

The other... probably Lego.

	15-01-2003 22:16									#22
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quote: Originally posted by ruby_maser Culture. For us, Pamplona won't go anywhere until we get a temple in there.

How many turns it takes for a city with a temple to expand the cultural border?

Is it shorter for a religious civ ?

	15-01-2003 22:24									#23
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The city cultural borders expand when the city reaches 10, 100, 1000 and 10,000 cultural points. If a city reaches 20,000 points the game is won by its civilization.

A temple produces 2 culture points per turn, so it will take 5 turns for Pamplona to expand its border from size 1 to 2 when the temple is finished.

Being religious makes temples and cathedrals cost half. That's 30 shields while its normal cost is 60 shields.

	15-01-2003 22:24									#24
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quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT How many turns it takes for a city with a temple to expand the cultural border? Is it shorter for a religious civ ?

IIRC, temples for all civs will produce 2 culture points. Growth comes at 10 culture points. That would make it 5 turns after a temple goes up that the borders will expand. Note, though, that a library, etc. will expand the borders to; however, I'm not sure it would be 5 turns later.

Though our border won't expand faster, we can build the temples faster since they are cheaper for us.

Edit: what Señor OliverFA said

	15-01-2003 22:26									#25
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Ruby_Maser! We crossposted!

	22-01-2003 02:33									#26
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*bump*

Updated to include 2310 BC demographics.

	23-01-2003 19:39									#27
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*bump*

Update to include 2270 BC demographics.

	23-01-2003 20:11									#28
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4th city confirmed for Legos, not for ND

	23-01-2003 20:51									#29
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FYI: The other IS Legoland... Nimitz told me himself (assuming he can be trusted about such an issue and he has no reason to lie about it).

Legoland has 3-4 cities:

Legopolis, Jacksonville, and Farmville are names he gave me for the first three.

Nimitz told me that barbarians were a rather pesky problem for them on their sizable continent all by themselves.

He also told me that their settler for founding City #4 was already en route to its destination and that was now a turn ago, so it's entirely possible that city was founded over the past turn.

	04-02-2003 03:51									#30
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*bump*

Updated for 1910 BC.