17-12-2002 02:51									#1
	What the heck! U.N.!??!?!? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

When i build the wonder if I have elections i lose and the game is over, if someelse builds it they win and the game is over?!?!

	17-12-2002 03:00									#2
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If you "lose" then someone else technically wins. If they build it and not win then you might have a chance of winning. You survive if no one wins, get it?

I don't think there is ONE person in apolyton who actually LIKES the way the UN works in civ3 (as compared to SMAC or whatever other game you like). It's a cop out and I DARE ANYONE reading this thread to say the actually LIKE it.

If you do I will wilfully submit myself to a harsh beating from Joan d'Arc....

	17-12-2002 03:04									#3
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I like it!!!!!


Can we get a MPEG file of the beating?

	17-12-2002 03:09									#4
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Just build the UN and never call a vote. Better yet disable diplo win.

	17-12-2002 03:24									#5
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Yeah, the UN does sux0r. But what would you suggest to improve it?

	17-12-2002 03:34									#6
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MattH, there are a millions things that could improve it, not the least scrapping it and making a new UN wonder that actually does something, anything, diplomatic. Like In SMAC, or at least giving possibilities of new treaties or whatever.

Acooper, I'll get back to you on that.

	17-12-2002 03:39									#7
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Agreed... the UN could be improved to give you all kinds of other diplomatic advantages without being a game-ending mechanism. I'm kind of disappointed Firaxis didn't do something about it with PTW - these complaints have been around for a while... yet the decided instead to focus on the stock exchange/wall street improvement (wasn't really broken in the first place) and the Internet (a nice idea - but again, not really a big deal).

	17-12-2002 03:56									#8
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I agree, it's a lame ending. I especially liked SMAC's UN, but the UN would come too late in the game to be useful.

	17-12-2002 04:02									#9
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Hum, how about an anti-Wall Street + anti-Hanging Gardens + universial Great Libary?

1. Every turn every governement with > 1000 gold gets 10% gold taken away, those with > 100 gold but less than 1000 gold gets get 2% of their gold taken away. (Amounts doubled if located in one of your cities.)

2. Every tech that the civ in possesion of it has is immedately given for free every turn to every other civ in the game.

3. Causes 3 citizens in the city in which it's owned to become UNHAPPY, and 1 citizen in all other cities of the empire which own it to also become UNHAPPY.
(From the Anti-UN protests)

	17-12-2002 04:10									#10
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That would be very realistic, except, um.... why the HELL would I want to build THAT!?

Ofcourse, everybody knows that South Africa rules the world because Kofie Anan is Secretary General.

	17-12-2002 04:30									#11
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aahz_capone: ....

U.N. Wonder is great, if you're a WarMonger you got to build the U.N. First and say no when they ask you to call the vote. You have to think in the earliest debut of the game what do you want to do.

When someone else build the U.N Wonder and you play the games like a ***** and know you will lose, you got to Nuke the city, Sabotage Production or capture the city where the U.N. is build. It's just add another level of difficulty and more complexity to this game!!!

Nice evening

	17-12-2002 06:44									#12
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Until the UN behaves like the SMAC planetary council, I will never build it again.

quote: Originally posted by aahz_capone Ofcourse, everybody knows that South Africa rules the world because Kofie Anan is Secretary General.

Koffi Annan is from Ghana, but yeah, most Apolytoners agree with you.

	17-12-2002 17:36									#13
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er oops...

uh, yeah thats what I meant.

	17-12-2002 19:24									#14
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quote: Originally posted by aahz_capone If you "lose" then someone else technically wins. If they build it and not win then you might have a chance of winning. You survive if no one wins, get it? I don't think there is ONE person in apolyton who actually LIKES the way the UN works in civ3 (as compared to SMAC or whatever other game you like). It's a cop out and I DARE ANYONE reading this thread to say the actually LIKE it. If you do I will wilfully submit myself to a harsh beating from Joan d'Arc....

I do! When do we get to see the beating !

Seriously though, I never played SMAC so I can't compare but I have no problem with way it works. As for it being lame you guys are right anything that's peaceful and ends without much commotion is so but that doesn't mean that it's not satisfying!

So long...

	17-12-2002 19:46									#15
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Ok, Ok, you guys definately just want to see Joan beat me don't you? You're all sick!




(me too)...


But Ming would kill me if I posted THAT debaucherry here!

Last edited by aahz_capone on 17-12-2002 at 19:52

	17-12-2002 22:12									#16
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quote: Originally posted by aahz_capone Ok, Ok, you guys definately just want to see Joan beat me don't you? You're all sick! (me too)... But Ming would kill me if I posted THAT debaucherry here!

Hmm... I'm now seeing visions of Joan of Arc in some skimpy leather dominatrix bustier and matching thigh-high boots sporting a dog collar and a riding crop...

	17-12-2002 22:15									#17
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quote: Originally posted by aahz_capone That would be very realistic, except, um.... why the HELL would I want to build THAT!?

Don't worry about him, he's American, they're somewhat hostile to the UN these days. They're forgetting the good things that the UN does.

	17-12-2002 23:01									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Carver Until the UN behaves like the SMAC planetary council, I will never build it again. Koffi Annan is from Ghana, but yeah, most Apolytoners agree with you.

Yeah the UN is a big waste of time in Civ3. You might as well throw the shields away building Marines the rest of the game than build it, that's how worthless it is. I disable Diplo every time I start a new game.

If it was even remotely like the SMAC PC I'd consider building it.

	17-12-2002 23:38									#19
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There are multiple ways to win in Civ3. There is also a way to win or LOSE: the UN.

I lost to it once (only). I have also won with it 2 or more times. I don't remember how many, it's been so long ago. It DOES seem to be a little more reliable to just CONQUER your way to victory!

Build It! But use it at your own risk.

	18-12-2002 00:23									#20
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quote: Originally posted by aahz_capone I don't think there is ONE person in apolyton who actually LIKES the way the UN works in civ3 (as compared to SMAC or whatever other game you like). It's a cop out and I DARE ANYONE reading this thread to say the actually LIKE it.

Like it? I it!!!

99% of the time the game has already been decided by this point. The early out lets you win and get on to the next game.

	18-12-2002 00:51									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Jawa Jocky Like it? I it!!! 99% of the time the game has already been decided by this point. The early out lets you win and get on to the next game.

Either that, or certain victory is ripped from your grasp when you lose the vote.

You're better off building the spaceship to finish the game off at that point.

	18-12-2002 02:04									#22
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Like the AI the human player should always know who will win the vote. Therefore certain victory should never be lost due to Diplomacy.

	18-12-2002 04:37									#23
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like in human MP a human would vote for someone else in the UN, yeah right.

	18-12-2002 05:00									#24
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As annoying as it is, I still think that Civ3 needs a GreatWonder-based victory....it has warfare, infrastructure (domination), city improvements (spaceship), and culture. It also has the MP victories.....without SOME sort of UN, there is no Wonder-based victory. IT just wouldn't feel.....complete.

	18-12-2002 18:23									#25
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quote: Originally posted by FNBrown Hmm... I'm now seeing visions of Joan of Arc in some skimpy leather dominatrix bustier and matching thigh-high boots sporting a dog collar and a riding crop...

Ah, so you've seen GhengisFarb's leaderheads and website?



Oz

	18-12-2002 19:34									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Switch As annoying as it is, I still think that Civ3 needs a GreatWonder-based victory....it has warfare, infrastructure (domination), city improvements (spaceship), and culture. It also has the MP victories.....without SOME sort of UN, there is no Wonder-based victory. IT just wouldn't feel.....complete.

Well that's fine, but it shouldn't be the UN in its current implementation. IMO the UN was a rush job. The UN should be used for global treaties and what-not.

	18-12-2002 20:52									#27
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quote: Originally posted by aahz_capone I don't think there is ONE person in apolyton who actually LIKES the way the UN works in civ3 (as compared to SMAC or whatever other game you like). It's a cop out and I DARE ANYONE reading this thread to say the actually LIKE it.

I'd have agreed completely until a couple of weeks ago. I started figuring out how diplomacy works, though, and my last 3 wins have been diplomatic. I think the UN would be more popular if there was a big, flashy victory celebration with fireworks and such. A pop-up of the election results is a pretty big letdown after 30 or 40 hours in front of the computer.

As far as you and Joan, anything a consenting adult and a consenting animation want to do is fine with me.

	18-12-2002 22:49									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Ozymandias Ah, so you've seen GhengisFarb's leaderheads and website? Oz

Actually, I have... although I don't really care for his taste in obnoxiously over-endowed women.