25-08-2000 03:44									#1
	Useless Drones Advantage ? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Quote from SMAX manual on faction characteristics for the Free Drones : "Bases that revolt have a 75% chance of joining the Drones..."

Has anyone of you experienced this ? Just tell me WHEN does a base revolt ? Under which circumstances ? And if yes, how can you probe an enemy base to revolt ? Has anyone ever gained an enemy base by playing as Domai ?

Apart from the usual drone riots, after two years of playing SMAC I've never came across a base "revolting"... Do I miss anything ?

	25-08-2000 05:05									#2
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In my experience you must have random events on for this to happen. I lost a base once to the drones because of this. I had 40+ bases and the base had rioted for a couple turns I think without me taking care of it. I was close to transcending and was hitting turn complete to speed the end game. So i would say you must have riots for several consecutive turns for this to happen. Most likely it is rare because most human players take care of it each turn and the AI is somewhat programmed to auto take care of it.
Something to try if you're the drones using random would be to probe say Zak for consecutive turns and see what happens. Prolly could do it under a scenario to save time.

Later

	25-08-2000 05:13									#3
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I believe the option is "incite drone riots" when you probe an enemy base. What this does is turn one worker into a drone. Wow, right? I can't say that I've ever used this enough to judge its effectiveness. I suppose in MP it would be pretty annoying. Well, anything probes do would be pretty annoying in MP. I tend to go for structures or tech with probes anyhow. My two cents.

	25-08-2000 05:22									#4
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WhiteElephants this is correct, but I think Neptunus is trying to get a revolt of a base to the drones. So a multiple "incite drone riots" probing might cause a multiple turn riot of a base and revolt to the drones faction.

	25-08-2000 17:41									#5
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As the manual states, one primary function of "Incite drone riots" is that rioting bases cost less to mind control. Admittedly, it's usually easier to sabotage a psych improving facility, but that's also more risky.

	25-08-2000 20:43									#6
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I have gotten a base by revolt as the Drones. I got it from a human player who was the Morgans. He was so frustrated that he quit.

You will only get a base like that if the other player fails to concentrate or something. I would have loaded the autosave, but he felt that I had already won anyway so we called it a game.

I guess you could use your probes to do this, but I never have. The Drones usually have the industry to take the base by force so I've always done that.

	25-08-2000 22:13									#7
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This advantage seems to have been pretty poorly thought out, but the Drones seem to be such a powerful faction anyway that I don't think they really need another advantage. It might be fun to play an all-probe strategy as the Drones, though, and see if you get a lot of bases that way. By the way, I lost a city to drone riots in my last game! I just didn't pay close enough attention, I guess--I had my sound turned off, and so missed the "drone riots" warning I'm used to getting--and the base switched over to Miriam after only two (maybe three) turns! The odd thing was, this was a game with the Drones in it! (See my thread "three odd SMAXings...")

Does anyone know if bases switching to other factions due to drone riots is a feature only of SMAX, or does it happen in SMAC also?

	25-08-2000 22:42									#8
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I see the point. This advantage has never had any use for me and I have played the drones on several occasions (I play either them or the university). I have never, ever seen a base revolt!

	25-08-2000 22:52									#9
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I believe it is almost impossible to have an AI controlled base revolt to Human controlled Faction (drones or otherwise).

The reason is I believe the prerequisite for revolt (not riot) is that at least two successive full turns of drone riots are in effect. The AI will take every precaution to prevent a drone riot from occurring for two successive turns up to and including turning all citizens into drone reducing specialists. What this means is that if you force by Probe action/destruction of police units/ destruction of psych facility, the AI will fix the problem in their turn. Your next turn comes and the base is out of riot. You again probe them to make the base riot but for the purposes of the calculation the base has not been considered to be in roit status for 2 full consecutive turns.

Repeat adnauseum and you find no amount of probing will allow the base to revolt as the AI always fixes the riot (sometimes in very stupid ways I might add).

	26-08-2000 04:10									#10
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Ogie,

I see the AI let bases riot for more than one turn all the time! Maybe it's fixed in Smax, it is a major problem in Smac.

It only happens while the AI is in free market. It often allows it's units to wander around outside it's territory, especially just after it has switched into FM, and especially in an ally's territory. Or course the base riots, and it creates doctors to deal with that. But most AI bases are ~ 5 or 6 in pop, so it cannot create enough talents to cope, and it refuses to make it's first citizen into a specialist. The result is, the base not only riots but also starves. That small AI nutrient box means that it quickly loses population until the offending units are disbanded from lack of production.

My guess is that a base will almost never revolt away from an AI, just because it cheats. I've had it in MP - one of my bases revolted to the other human player, after being in disorder for two turns (I needed the time to avoid it starving.) I subverted it back, but when it rioted again some time later (stupidity this time) it revolted again! Very annoying.

	28-08-2000 01:05									#11
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I've acquired a base that was rioting in MP (quite a surprise for both me and my opponent) but never against the AI. I've never lost a base to revolt. I agree though - the Drones are so strong that this advantage is superfluous to requirements. Annoying that they've included a pointless feature though ...

	28-08-2000 03:56									#12
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So... it is a useless advantage. Anyway, I consider this a useless advantage EVEN AFTER I see it happen (which I didn't).

Ogie is absolutely right though. I've probed a CC base (playing as the Drones), with seven probe teams all during the same turn. All attempts were succesful. The base was size 12 and I destroyed the holo theater, the rec commons, the research hospital and the tree farm, inciting drone riots three times. The next turn the base was happy again, but certainly not mine...

	02-09-2000 01:42									#13
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Simpson II,

Interesting and quite logical that that might be the case that AI cities may be in riot for more than 1 turn under FM circumstances. I should have been somewhat more explicit in my supposition as to how revolts take place. I beleive the prerequisite is a base in riot for 2 full turns but moreover then it is assigned some random chance at revolt.

That being the case I have had bases in riot for 2 turns with no revolt (until I could rush a crawler to the city to bolster nuts to allow a doctor else suffer starvation). Similarly I have had them revolt (grr...) at a mere two turns. If it is a random thing one would expect the AI would cheat, probably the chance at revolt has something to do with difficulty level is my guess (with higher dif levels favoring AI factions ie. lowering the chance of revolt)

jus' my two pennies

Ogie

	07-09-2000 02:13									#14
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I've had an experience similar like that happened to Helium Pond.
Today I was running a Fund/FM/Wealth with Pirates, with a lot of sea probes, I've conquered a Morgan base and I've built here Recreation Commons and Network Node
(VW) and were was no need of psych; where was only one defence units supported.
In one turn Morgan probes destroied my RC and NN, and caused 2 or 3 drone riots. At the beginning of my turn the bese revolted and ... joins the Morgans!
But the strangest thing is that the base had me as ex-owner, also if the "assimilation time" was not expired
I think that a city riots only in case of "pacifist" faction (-3 or less in POLICE) and if the drone are a lot respect the combat units inside the city. I suggest to try this strategy.