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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:24
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Tamerlin - by "screw pass", I assume you mean when the ball is rotated as it leaves the passer's hands? The rotation is supposed to make the ball travel straighter and faster - as a bullet rotates for that reason - and not just float through the air. By a "French pass", do you mean simply passing the ball without rotating it?
Anyway, it's an interesting theory. I suppose it depends on the length of the pass. Over any more than 2 or 3 metres, I'd've thought the rotation method was superior because the ball can't float off its path.
BTW, "passe vissée" translates, literally, as "aimed pass". Which, I guess, is the opposite of the sort of pass a tighthead prop might throw. 
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Tamerlin
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Toulouse (South-western France)
Apr 2002
time: 06:24
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quote:
Originally posted by finbar
Tamerlin - by "screw pass", I assume you mean when the ball is rotated as it leaves the passer's hands? The rotation is supposed to make the ball travel straighter and faster - as a bullet rotates for that reason - and not just float through the air. |
Yes, it is nonetheless interesting to note that according to Jo Maso the "aimed pass" is ideal for long distances because of a better accuracy and because the ball has lost some speed and is floating at the end of its travel and can thus be attacked by the catching player.
quote:
By a "French pass", do you mean simply passing the ball without rotating it? |
It's more technical than that but the ball is actually not rotated in the "French pass".
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Anyway, it's an interesting theory. I suppose it depends on the length of the pass. Over any more than 2 or 3 metres, I'd've thought the rotation method was superior because the ball can't float off its path. |
Over 3 metres the "aimed pass" is justified though most players are handling an "aimed pass" even under 3 metres.
quote:
BTW, "passe vissée" translates, literally, as "aimed pass". Which, I guess, is the opposite of the sort of pass a tighthead prop might throw. |
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Tamerlin
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Toulouse (South-western France)
Apr 2002
time: 06:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Caligastia You don't like the ideal of peace and goodwill to all men? |
This is why I believe in this kind of things that I truly dislike Xmas, in the Northern Hemisphere countries it is now mainly a huge commercial festival and a period of time when the social differences are even more visible. As if it were not enough, many people are justifying an irresponsive or stupid behavior saying "it's Xmas!" with a soft voice and an idiotic smile on their face. 
While the Northern Hemisphere is celebrating Xmas, there are wars elsewhere in the world, third world countries devastated by plagues or faced with economical disaters. What is bothering me is that the world seems to stop for Xmas as if nothing else had any importance, people are all too happy reveling into a commercial orgy instead of thinking about the state of the world and the way to change things. All year round people don't like to think and face the real problems of the world, they don't care about them at all, for many persons Xmas is the occasion to say it's not the time to bother about problems as if they cared about them the rest of the year. 
Moreover, most of the Rugby Unions in the world have declared a respite and there won't be any Rugby games after this week.
If I had not a seven years old kid, I would leave for a remote part of the world far from this faked excitement.
Of course, if you believe in God and his son (though the story as it is told has some inconsistencies), it is another matter and you are entitled to celebrate this date properly and I respect and even encourage it. But remember the vast majority of the people celebrating Xmas are not believing in God or are "token" believers and that a simple prayer for the weak and the oppressed is not enough. In my own opinion, to believe is a state of mind and a way of living which can be hard, how many believers do you know who are acting this way? 
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by Tamerlin
This is why I believe in this kind of things that I truly dislike Xmas, in the Northern Hemisphere countries it is now mainly a huge commercial festival and a period of time when the social differences are even more visible. |
In what way are they more visible? Can you give me an example?
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As if it were not enough, many people are justifying an irresponsive or stupid behavior saying "it's Xmas!" with a soft voice and an idiotic smile on their face. |
At this time of year people are also more likely to say "it's Xmas" as they give to a charity, tip big, and smile at each other.
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While the Northern Hemisphere is celebrating Xmas, there are wars elsewhere in the world, third world countries devastated by plagues or faced with economical disaters. What is bothering me is that the world seems to stop for Xmas as if nothing else had any importance, people are all too happy reveling into a commercial orgy instead of thinking about the state of the world and the way to change things. |
So we can never celebrate or be happy because we should be thinking about the state of the world and the way to change things?
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Moreover, most of the Rugby Unions in the world have declared a respite and there won't be any Rugby games after this week. |
Definitely a downside.
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If I had not a seven years old kid, I would leave for a remote part of the world far from this faked excitement. |
You may feel it is faked, but I believe that most people are genuinely excited and feel at least a little more goodwill towards their fellow humans.
quote:
Of course, if you believe in God and his son (though the story as it is told has some inconsistencies), it is another matter and you are entitled to celebrate this date properly and I respect and even encourage it. But remember the vast majority of the people celebrating Xmas are not believing in God or are "token" believers and that a simple prayer for the weak and the oppressed is not enough. In my own opinion, to believe is a state of mind and a way of living which can be hard, how many believers do you know who are acting this way? |
I don't think you can know whether the vast majority believe in God or not, and I agree that the biblical story has inconsistencies, but I don't read the biblical version.
This version seems more real to me: http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper122.html
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LDiCesare
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La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001
time: 05:24
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I am not sure amied pass is a reason for current handling problems. However, I am positive that an aimed pass shouldn't be used at short distances. As Tamerlin said, you can't adjust your run, and you receive it as you would get a cannonball if you are near the passer. This means the receiver is more likely to:
- let the ball bump out of his hands before he even holds it,
- miscontrol the ball and let it fall,
- lose time controlling it and be tackled before he can do anything useful.
I also remember floating passes (French passes if you like, actually they were Irish), which were over 5 meters range, at the level of the players' heads. As a defender, seeing that, you didn't know who the pass was addressed to (it looked like it could go beyond the player who would actually catch it), and the receiver had all kinds of opportunities with these balls. In particular, they could immediately change the orientation of their race and accelerate while catching th e ball, and were not prone to fumbling them.
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Tamerlin
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Toulouse (South-western France)
Apr 2002
time: 06:24
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quote:
Originally posted by LDiCesare
I am not sure amied pass is a reason for current handling problems. However, I am positive that an aimed pass shouldn't be used at short distances. As Tamerlin said, you can't adjust your run, and you receive it as you would get a cannonball if you are near the passer. This means the receiver is more likely to:
- let the ball bump out of his hands before he even holds it,
- miscontrol the ball and let it fall,
- lose time controlling it and be tackled before he can do anything useful. |
You have rightly said, with one post only, what I am clumsily trying to explain since yesterday. 
quote:
I also remember floating passes (French passes if you like, actually they were Irish), which were over 5 meters range, at the level of the players' heads. As a defender, seeing that, you didn't know who the pass was addressed to (it looked like it could go beyond the player who would actually catch it), and the receiver had all kinds of opportunities with these balls. In particular, they could immediately change the orientation of their race and accelerate while catching th e ball, and were not prone to fumbling them. |
I was pretty sure Havak or you, as Rugby players, could greatly add to the discussion through your experience of the game. 
May be Havak has been too busy today collecting news on the Internet.
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LDiCesare
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La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001
time: 05:24
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quote:
I was pretty sure Havak or you, as Rugby players, could greatly add to the discussion through your experience of the game. |
Yes, I can attest that the "French" pass is very efficient from that match I played against an Irich team. They didn't need aimed passes against us, I am afraid, but these long floating passes remain a vivid memory (along with the score, which I won't reveal, even under torture). You tend to learn from losses sometimes. I am not able to do those nice floating passes, but at least I know they are very efficient.
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If the receiver has to change direction or interrupt his momentum, it's simply a bad pass. |
Actually, I think a non-aimed pass can be executed faster than an aimed one with better precision. That can explain why a player under pressure delivering an aimed pass is likely to make an average or bad pass.
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19-12-2002 08:00
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