02-01-2003 17:15									#121
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Nope.

	02-01-2003 17:27									#122
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Nope.

Mmmmm. Monosyllabic. That's a give away.

	02-01-2003 17:29									#123
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Back to work Havak?

Happy new year!

	02-01-2003 18:23									#124
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quote: I somehow doubt he'll be back here before the following match.

Happy to surprise you then. And yes I have finally sobered up and am indeed back at work.

I watched the defeat to Wasps and it worried me more than any other defeat this year. Not least because Wasps were poor themselves A back division lacking any kind of cohesion was our problem – I think our backs coach may be coming home a little sooner than we first thought Finbar.

Still it is only Saracens Saturday and we are at home – we cannot lose, can we?

And if we do – back to the monosyllabic for me.

	03-01-2003 04:35									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Happy to surprise you then. And yes I have finally sobered up and am indeed back at work.

So what did you get for Christmas? Amongst other things, I got a bigger, better espresso machine. Stainless steel, semi-industrial, I can now make multiple coffees at the same time as steam milk. Bliss!

quote: I watched the defeat to Wasps and it worried me more than any other defeat this year. Not least because Wasps were poor themselves A back division lacking any kind of cohesion was our problem – I think our backs coach may be coming home a little sooner than we first thought Finbar.

Make P. Howard an offer he can't refuse. Though I suspect the incumbent - himself - isn't really the problem.

quote: Still it is only Saracens Saturday and we are at home – we cannot lose, can we? And if we do – back to the monosyllabic for me.

Mmmm. You were monosyllabic after Wasps. A loss to Saracens would surely have to render you mute.

	03-01-2003 06:19									#126
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quote: Originally posted by finbar So what did you get for Christmas?

A new Hard Disk Drive and GURPS Transhuman Space (well, for the last one I am waiting for my game provider to restock this Role Playing Game to buy it with the money my father gave me for this damn** day). Christmas is no more what it used to be.

quote: Amongst other things, I got a bigger, better espresso machine. Stainless steel, semi-industrial, I can now make multiple coffees at the same time as steam milk. Bliss!

This present will make you feel you are an Italian for a few minutes each day, that's what I call a really cool present!

quote: Make P. Howard an offer he can't refuse. Though I suspect the incumbent - himself - isn't really the problem.

Is this the beginning of the coaches' waltz?

quote: Mmmm. You were monosyllabic after Wasps. A loss to Saracens would surely have to render you mute.

Wait until France beats England at Twickenham...

Johnny Wilkinson has declared on the Internet website of the BBC that (translation on the spot): "A game against France is always important but this one has a much bigger meaning this year with the world cup coming next. We are confident in our strength at Twickenham but the French XV is one of those teams able to win anywhere. With the World Cup approaching a defeat is unthinkable."

	03-01-2003 10:03									#127
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin A new Hard Disk Drive and GURPS Transhuman Space (well, for the last one I am waiting for my game provider to restock this Role Playing Game to buy it with the money my father gave me for this damn** day).

GURPS huh? I must confess that was one I never really got into. To me it just seemed to try and do a bit too much and ended up not doing anything as well as an individual system dedicated to a particular genre.
Thats just me though...

quote: Wait until France beats England at Twickenham...

And he'll be waiting how long exactly?


Btw a belated Merry Xmas and Happy NY to all.

	03-01-2003 13:30									#128
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quote: You are right but it is rather frustrating as the English team is showing great things except when it plays against France

By the way Tamerlin I did not entirely miss this.

You are aware that before beating us in Paris in 2002 that you actually lost the last three fixtures in a row against us right?

	03-01-2003 16:08									#129
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quote: Originally posted by Havak By the way Tamerlin I did not entirely miss this.

quote: You are aware that before beating us in Paris in 2002 that you actually lost the last three fixtures in a row against us right?

You are right, I was just talking about the game played by the English team, efficient but dull, close to the fundamentals with no fancies.

If the English players were to beat France in this Six Nations Tournament (which is of course unlikely ) I only hope they will dare to play the game they have developed against the Southern Hemisphere last year.

	03-01-2003 16:35									#130
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quote: So what did you get for Christmas?

Lots of useful Tigers trinkets that will no doubt become curiousities in the dark Gloucester dominated times to come (all one season of it if I have my wish).

And various bits for my next PC – the building of which that hopefully won’t be the emotional roller coaster that supporting tigers has become.

That drink factory sounds perfect for you all right though.

quote: Make P. Howard an offer he can't refuse. Though I suspect the incumbent - himself - isn't really the problem.

I’d love to see Pat return as you know. I’m not so sure Tug isn’t the problem. He has done well whenever he has played with the back line inherited from Pat. This season he has had to assemble back lines of his own due to the butchers bill at the club and he may have been found wanting? We shall see – either way I have a feeling when his contract expires in June he will be returning south.

quote: Mmmm. You were monosyllabic after Wasps. A loss to Saracens would surely have to render you mute.

Mute in the “red faced with rage” sense perhaps. Saints outplayed us and deserved to beat us at home – no complaints from me. Wasps were awful and losing to them a body blow as it showed how far we had fallen. Losing to the other London based big spending fez wearing also rans would feel almost as bad as England losing to Australia for me. Almost.

quote: Is this the beginning of the coaches' waltz?

Deano needs to do something or his own seat may become uncomfortably hot. Such is the fickle nature of sports coaching – four straight championships and two back to back European cups forgotten in an instant when you lose to rubbish like Wasps.

quote: Wait until France beats England at Twickenham...

Kudos to Ravagon - Anyone here patient enough to wait those thirty years?

quote: With the World Cup approaching a defeat is unthinkable

His ghost writer is enjoying a little hyperbole I think – but it is a massive game certainly. Tastiest game until RWC certainly.

quote: I only hope they will dare to play the game they have developed against the Southern Hemisphere last year.

I’m sure they will I was also expecting you to reply with your three straight victories in the late nineties.

England know France are a real threat. And we also know if we beat you it will be accepted and you’ll move on. No bleating about under strength sides and all that poor gamesmanship you get from some teams.

	03-01-2003 16:40									#131
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon GURPS huh? I must confess that was one I never really got into. To me it just seemed to try and do a bit too much and ended up not doing anything as well as an individual system dedicated to a particular genre. Thats just me though...

This is exactly what I am thinking about this game system, it tries to adapt anything anywhere like someone trying to drive in a square wedge into a smaller round hole.

Many GURPS sourcebooks are nonetheless excellent as references for other games or their background.

Transhuman Space is special as the latest version of this book (the hardcover edition) is somehow independent of the whole GURPS line. It is packed with GURPS Lite a simplified version of the original game system adapted to the campaign setting and ready to be used. I have already read GURPS Lite and this game system is largely adequate.

In my own opinion Action! and Fuzion are two game systems which are doing a better work than GURPS though I think the only real universal game system is actually FUDGE.

quote: And he'll be waiting how long exactly?

I am not sure but I suppose the Six Nations Tournmanent starts in February.

quote: Btw a belated Merry Xmas and Happy NY to all.

Happy New Year!

	03-01-2003 16:52									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I’m sure they will I was also expecting you to reply with your three straight victories in the late nineties.

The past is the past, no need to gloat about victories some years ago if you are loosing today.



And how do you want me to remember old events on the spot when I can't remember what a friend told me the day before about Colomiers.

quote: England know France are a real threat. And we also know if we beat you it will be accepted and you’ll move on. No bleating about under strength sides and all that poor gamesmanship you get from some teams.

Real gentlemen are very hard to find these days...

	03-01-2003 18:15									#133
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And in a further blow to the All Blacks Howlett is playing games over his AB contract negotiations and is threatening to move to Europe.

	03-01-2003 19:23									#134
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin This present will make you feel you are an Italian for a few minutes each day, that's what I call a really cool present!

Anyone for a latte?

	03-01-2003 19:25									#135
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon GURPS huh? I must confess that was one I never really got into. To me it just seemed to try and do a bit too much and ended up not doing anything as well as an individual system dedicated to a particular genre. Thats just me though...

Will someone please explain to me just what the hell a GURPS is?

	03-01-2003 19:40									#136
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Is that the old "Generic Universal Role Playing System"?

Congrats to Steve Waugh by the way. Can't say I like him as a person (he is an Aussie cricketer after all and that has replaced "arrogant" in most dictionaries these days) but you cannot deny his achievements with the bat.

Last edited by Havak on 03-01-2003 at 19:50

	03-01-2003 20:15									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Lots of useful Tigers trinkets that will no doubt become curiousities in the dark Gloucester dominated times to come (all one season of it if I have my wish).

*Havak settled down to unstitching the "Tigers 2002-2003 Champions" embroidered on his every pair of red, white and green underpants*

quote: And various bits for my next PC – the building of which that hopefully won’t be the emotional roller coaster that supporting tigers has become.

*Havak's brand new self-built PC is run over by a Tractor*

quote: That drink factory sounds perfect for you all right though.

I'm having trouble frothing the milk. With the old machine it was easy because it took a full head of steam to froth the milk. The new machine is so powerful that it can boil the milk if I'm not careful. It's taking some getting used to!

quote: I’d love to see Pat return as you know. I’m not so sure Tug isn’t the problem. He has done well whenever he has played with the back line inherited from Pat. This season he has had to assemble back lines of his own due to the butchers bill at the club and he may have been found wanting? We shall see – either way I have a feeling when his contract expires in June he will be returning south.

Mmmm. He was a terrific organiser at the Brumbies, it was his great strength. It took the Brumbies a while to learn to cope without him. I don't know whether that's an ability you can actually lose. Maybe it's a communication thing, maybe it's the cattle he's working with, or maybe it's a reflection of problems elsewhere on the field. Of course he's also getting older, he was never blessed with high speed, and maybe his own personal contribution isn't what it once was, which could create a problem.

quote: Deano needs to do something or his own seat may become uncomfortably hot. Such is the fickle nature of sports coaching – four straight championships and two back to back European cups forgotten in an instant when you lose to rubbish like Wasps.

Indeed. It's always the coach who cops it. But it's not the coach who takes the field and stuffs up. Teams age, as do tactics. A great coach will be one step ahead. We have an instance here in the AFL (Australian Rules). One coach has been at the same club for 20+ years. He's one of the great innovators. The team sometimes misses the finals but they're always back with fresh talent and new ideas.

	03-01-2003 20:28									#138
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Is that the old "Generic Universal Role Playing System"?

You tell me!

quote: Congrats to Steve Waugh by the way. Can't say I like him as a person (he is an Aussie cricketer after all and that has replaced "arrogant" in most dictionaries these days) but you cannot deny his achievements with the bat.

I'm a huge admirer of Steve Waugh, not just as a cricketer. He's a bona fide individual with absolutely no bullsh*t about him and extraordinary character. His performance today was about much more than cricket.

	03-01-2003 20:47									#139
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Over to tamerlin et al for the role playing stuff - I left that behind after Uni.

You made good points about the coaching but I lack time to discuss them - damned work!

Waugh ruined his chance of ever being admired by Englishmen way back in the 1989 Ashes series as a whipper snapper by being insufferably arrogant and anti-pom. He may have matured into the man you admire now but for me Butchers knock remains the class of the test so far.

Anyway we will never hear the end of 5-0. Not that that is any real achievement these days - we shouldn't be playing in the same league as your mob really.

	04-01-2003 03:23									#140
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quote: Originally posted by finbar You tell me!

Havak is right, GURPS stands for "Generic Universal Role Playing System", an attempt by Steve Jackson Games to publish a set of role playing rules that can be used in every setting, historical, science-fiction, heroic-fantasy and so on. As Ravagon wrote it in a previous post, it tries to do everything and achieves nothing as far as rules are concerned and ends up to be a clumsy game system. The sourcebooks published for this game system are however often very good and can be used for other games with a different set of rules. If you want to play in a Pulp, Steampunk or science-fiction setting, GURPS Cliffhangers, GURPS Steampunk or GURPS Space are very interesting to read because they are well conceived, give you many hints on the chosen era and many advices on how to create your own campaign.

quote: *Havak settled down to unstitching the "Tigers 2002-2003 Champions" embroidered on his every pair of red, white and green underpants*

quote: Indeed. It's always the coach who cops it. But it's not the coach who takes the field and stuffs up. Teams age, as do tactics.

This is true but it is easier to use the coach as a fuze rather than the players who are a kind of investment, and moreover if you fire your players who is going to play on the field.

Nowadays coaches are sometimes fired too quickly and that is generally hiding something else.

	04-01-2003 07:33									#141
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quote: Originally posted by Havak You made good points about the coaching but I lack time to discuss them - damned work!

The interesting thing about the Leicester situation is the suddenness of the decline. Success is always cyclical, but most declines are gradual. Unless, of course, there were signs there last season that somehow were either covered up or overlooked.

quote: Waugh ruined his chance of ever being admired by Englishmen way back in the 1989 Ashes series as a whipper snapper by being insufferably arrogant and anti-pom.

The evidence, I suspect, is to the contrary. For the most part anyway. Certainly the England team's response to his performance yesterday was to the contrary - and totally genuine.

quote: He may have matured into the man you admire now but for me Butchers knock remains the class of the test so far.

Give Mark Butcher enough lives in an innings and he will make a ton.

quote: Anyway we will never hear the end of 5-0. Not that that is any real achievement these days - we shouldn't be playing in the same league as your mob really.

I suspect this Test will be a draw unless something untoward happens.

	04-01-2003 07:36									#142
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Havak is right, GURPS stands for "Generic Universal Role Playing System", an attempt by Steve Jackson Games to publish a set of role playing rules that can be used in every setting, historical, science-fiction, heroic-fantasy and so on. As Ravagon wrote it in a previous post, it tries to do everything and achieves nothing as far as rules are concerned and ends up to be a clumsy game system. The sourcebooks published for this game system are however often very good and can be used for other games with a different set of rules. If you want to play in a Pulp, Steampunk or science-fiction setting, GURPS Cliffhangers, GURPS Steampunk or GURPS Space are very interesting to read because they are well conceived, give you many hints on the chosen era and many advices on how to create your own campaign.

I'm still none the wiser! But then I'm incredibly ignorant about these things.

quote: This is true but it is easier to use the coach as a fuze rather than the players who are a kind of investment, and moreover if you fire your players who is going to play on the field. Nowadays coaches are sometimes fired too quickly and that is generally hiding something else.

I think you've nailed it. The coach is so often the scapegoat because it's quicker and cheaper to replace one person.

	04-01-2003 14:29									#143
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quote: Originally posted by finbar The interesting thing about the Leicester situation is the suddenness of the decline. Success is always cyclical, but most declines are gradual. Unless, of course, there were signs there last season that somehow were either covered up or overlooked.

Havak will tell us... The results of a team all along a given year can hide a difficult time to come as some hints are difficult to spot until the problems are here. The Stade Toulousain is an exemple in this matter, after the four titles in a row serie from 1994 to 1997 the club has entered into a slow decline and the 1997 won final against Bourgoin was worrying. An older generation of famous players slowly declining without being replaced by young players or coaches don't allowing the young to play while the stars where still active gave us a few bad seasons. Many young players left the club because they could not play and the game played became poorer and poorer without any evolution when the Stade Toulousain was ahead of the other french clubs a few years ago.

Today a new generation of players is rising while the older ones are now retiring or already retired and the Stade Toulousain is slowly recovering and learning to play another game but as a convalescent patient the Stade seems sometimes very tired...

Leicester is perhaps into such a transition year and the error would be to massively recruit new players each year. In France, Brives is now playing in second division and the AS Montferrand is currently paying the price of such a foolish policy. You can't change half of the team each year and expect the players to play as a coordinated group.

	04-01-2003 17:08									#144
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Havak will tell us... The results of a team all along a given year can hide a difficult time to come as some hints are difficult to spot until the problems are here. The Stade Toulousain is an exemple in this matter, after the four titles in a row serie from 1994 to 1997 the club has entered into a slow decline and the 1997 won final against Bourgoin was worrying. An older generation of famous players slowly declining without being replaced by young players or coaches don't allowing the young to play while the stars where still active gave us a few bad seasons. Many young players left the club because they could not play and the game played became poorer and poorer without any evolution when the Stade Toulousain was ahead of the other french clubs a few years ago.

Top analysis of a classic situation.

quote: You can't change half of the team each year and expect the players to play as a coordinated group.

Very true. Getting the balance of change right is so important. It's exactly what's happening with the Australian Cricket team at the moment. The selectors are gradually easing out the older players. The captain, though, the oldest - at 37 - and the most experienced, is defying them by performing brilliantly.

	05-01-2003 09:09									#145
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Weekend results of interest to the thread:

Gloucester 24 -d- Wasps 17



Leicester 23 -d- Saracens 18 (including, I notice, a try to Timmy Horan!)

*Havak celebrates!*

No results on the French front. According to the website, there hasn't been a match played since 20/12. Maybe the website's still on holidays.

	05-01-2003 15:34									#146
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quote: Originally posted by finbar No results on the French front. According to the website, there hasn't been a match played since 20/12. Maybe the website's still on holidays.

No games the week before and only friendly games this week end, the Stade Toulousain has won against Montauban in a very shy game with a rather bad spirit from the players of Montauban and their supporters...

	06-01-2003 03:42									#147
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How come only friendlies? Why haven't they got back to the competition games?

	06-01-2003 05:30									#148
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quote: Originally posted by finbar How come only friendlies? Why haven't they got back to the competition games?

The Xmas respite is still a tradition in France, the Heinekein Cup is back for two weeks and the french championship starts again January the 25th.

The Stade Toulousain will play next week at home against Newport, a win and they are qualified for a 1/4th-final at home.

	06-01-2003 10:38									#149
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quote: Originally posted by finbar The evidence, I suspect, is to the contrary. For the most part anyway. Certainly the England team's response to his performance yesterday was to the contrary - and totally genuine.

Including, as you no doubt noticed, Stuarts half-joking offer to play for England should he be dropped from the Australian side?
I rather suspect they'd drop the joke were he to show a serious interest.
It also makes me wonder how the ACB would take it if this were to become a reality...


Update: Although (having just noticed the cricket results in another thread) the English team may have other things on their mind right now. Good show.


Scuse the lack of rugby-related references. I have some catching up to do.

	06-01-2003 15:33									#150
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quote: Unless, of course, there were signs there last season that somehow were either covered up or overlooked.

There might have been but I think it’s simpler than that. We lost a fairly okay stand off to Sarries in the close season. Healey cannot do the job the way the backs need it and the young lad having to fill in whilst Austin recovers from various injuries is a promising talent but the big theatre is beyond him right now. He cannot kick from hand for example and his distribution recently has been ankles or mile high stuff.

Add to this the fact that one of our long serving scrummies seems to have lost it totally this season and that these two played together Saturday and nearly cost us a game we dominated (scrummy Hamilton failed to cover their first try in the most laughable farcical amateur way and the young stand off Vesty was charged down for Timmy’s try at the death) and you start to see where the problems are manifesting

The forwards continue to dominate sides and our possession ratio tends to be superb but the backs never capitalise. We are in a way England writ small.

quote: Certainly the England team's response to his performance yesterday was to the contrary - and totally genuine

Maybe he has matured. I heard his generous comments on England on the radio this morning.

I’m personally still in shock that they won a test down there!!!

quote: Give Mark Butcher enough lives in an innings and he will make a ton

Yes I’m afraid they have picked up the ‘never walk’ bug from your lads these days. It’s really not cricket is it?

quote: Leicester is perhaps into such a transition year and the error would be to massively recruit new players each year

I agree totally.

Sadly I suspect we will see a huge clearout in the summer. We have a massive playing roster (there must be nearly 50 Pros on the books) and that could stand some trimming anyway. We also have a strong academy system of course and that keeps churning out England forwards which is very helpful.

I’d still murder to tempt Patty Howard back though. Sky’s ‘Poido’ Stuart Barnes suggested the same thing on Saturday.

As for the game Saturday it was very strange. The ref was a new one on me and he was quite interesting in his interpretations.

Neither of their tries should have stood. For the first one you can’t score without touching the ball and for the second the charge down was a result of a massive offside move by their centre (not marginal at all Finbar). One of our tries should have been disallowed for accidental crossing.

Both they and we should have seen yellow in the first half for constant spoiling. There should have been two yellows in the second half for silly handbags between props (when Tigers finally got upset with their Kiwi tight head always using his hands on the deck) and finally towards the end we should have seen red. Poor old Frank Tournaire was caught on the floor by their lock and got a knee in the head for his trouble. So far so good but as the ref blew Frank saw red and swung not one but three punches in combination with the ref right behind him. Suicidal discipline from the guy! Although he speaks excellent English he played the “not understand” card and the ref let it go. The lad ‘got out of jail’ there.