18-12-2002 22:37									#1
	Unoffical Science Plan Advisory Got spare money?

This is an unoffical poll for advisement on science.

Plan A will involve discovering Scientific Theory in the minimum 4 turns from when it started, followed by resarching Atomic Theory at 100% initally which will take either 6 or 7 turns from the time ST is discovered. (Tweaking down if benifital without increaseing discovery time.)
Science would then be turned off waiting for Theory of Evolution to Completion (probably only 1 or 2 turns) to get Electronics & Radio for free. The long range from this would be discoverly of Tanks & Bombers in either order and then direcly entering the modern era.

Plan B: Scientific Theory research taking 5 turns from when it started, and then researched turned off for several turns awaiting for Theory of Evolution to complete. (Or alternatively Scientfic Theory taking even more turns to reserach with fewer turns of no research). We'd then get Atomic Theory and Electronics for free. The long range plan for this would be discoverly of Tanks & Bombers in either order, then going back and getting Radio to enter to the modern era.

Last edited by joncnunn on 18-12-2002 at 23:26

	19-12-2002 00:24									#2
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As I suggested in the chat, Plan A.

Rest assured, however, that I've given joncnunn broad authority when it comes to technology. So this one is his call in the end

	19-12-2002 00:28									#3
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hi ,

plan A , we should try to get into the modern era as soon as we can

have a nice day & happy X-mass

	19-12-2002 00:35									#4
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Last night I had actually come up with 3 plans, but the events of the turn chat made Plan 3 obsolete since we bought that tech from the Russians.

	19-12-2002 00:41									#5
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In any event, I'm planning on skipping the two remaining optional techs which are virtually worthless (Amphious Warfare & Advanced Flight). But that is probably a term 8 call.

I do anticipate post-building of Theory of Evolution reseraching every remaining required industrial tech in 4 turns while running a surplus.

quote: Originally posted by panag hi , plan A , we should try to get into the modern era as soon as we can have a nice day & happy X-mass

	19-12-2002 00:54									#6
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn In any event, I'm planning on skipping the two remaining optional techs which are virtually worthless (Amphious Warfare & Advanced Flight). But that is probably a term 8 call. I do anticipate post-building of Theory of Evolution reseraching every remaining required industrial tech in 4 turns while running a surplus.

hi ,

great

, how far could we go this term with research

have a nice day

	19-12-2002 00:58									#7
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I myself am voting for Plan A. I have called this poll, because the last term 6 chat research Science Theory in 5 turns decision may make acheiveing plan A impossible without delaying the Theory of Evolution build. It certinately leaves no margin for error. A 4 turn total reserach of Sci Theory from the time RP was discovered gives us that safety margin.

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos As I suggested in the chat, Plan A. Rest assured, however, that I've given joncnunn broad authority when it comes to technology. So this one is his call in the end

	19-12-2002 01:06									#8
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn I myself am voting for Plan A. I have called this poll, because the last term 6 chat research Science Theory in 5 turns decision may make acheiveing plan A impossible without delaying the Theory of Evolution build. It certinately leaves no margin for error. A 4 turn total reserach of Sci Theory from the time RP was discovered gives us that safety margin.

joncnunn,

As I PMed to you as well, we always have the option (as an option of last resort) of slowing down the production of ToE by one turn so we get Atomic Theory before we finish ToE.

	19-12-2002 01:06									#9
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These tech plan names are boring.

	19-12-2002 01:08									#10
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Sorry, Panag, I can't answer that question with any confidence yet.

It depends upon which AIs are currently reseraching what and their reserach rates.

I should have an answer when Theory of Evolution is built.

At one end of the sprectrum, global reserach comes to a halt due to the Great War and we have to reserach both pre-reqs to Combustion ourselves [along with every other required tech] after building Theory of Evolution.

On the other end of the sprecturm, the AIs might get as far as reseraching Combustion by the time Theory of Evolution is complete. (If both pre-reqs discovered is the next couple of turns due to being reserached by different AIs & their not at war with each other, and then 1 of them procedues to Combustion.)

Both of those extremes are unlikely. The most probable is that we start reseraching the top half at Combustion. (With us having to reserach 1 of the preqres more probable than us being able to buy Combustion.)

In addition, I think that the Tanks is a tech that costs 180, and so we can only reserach that tech in 4 turns if we build Hospitals ASAP.

quote: Originally posted by panag , how far could we go this term with research have a nice day

	19-12-2002 01:21									#11
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I think that we should wait an see what the actual times for Atomic will be (and other techs).

If it takes 9 turns to get ToE (from now) & it will take 4 turns to get one of the lesser Techs (I suggest Refining for Oil) then I say do the Research on Refining and then set the Sci Rate to 0% while waiting for ToE to come online.

IF ToE is going to take 8 turns from now AND the TOC's on either Refining & other tech (can't remember its name) takes 4 turns, then we should go for Atomic at the highest rate that we can.

It had been my experiance, that ToE will give you the CHEAPER Technologies first, so we are likely not to get Atomic unless we have atleast Refining before ToE activates.

THis is something that will have to be decided during the Chat. We can do some planning ahead, but we will have to make the final desision based on the actual Reality, when the time does come.

E_T

	19-12-2002 01:27									#12
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quote: Originally posted by E_T It had been my experiance, that ToE will give you the CHEAPER Technologies first, so we are likely not to get Atomic unless we have atleast Refining before ToE activates.

FYI: I believe the v1.21f patch allows us to PICK techs rather than have them picked for us. This means, as I've practiced repeatedly in single-player, you can use ToE to bee-line for Electronics and Radio by getting Atomic Theory just before ToE's completion. Once you've finished Hoover's Dam, you techwhore Atomic Theory and Electronics for any techs on the Refining+Steel side of the tree that hte AI already has.

I'm the one that suggested this in the turnchat because I've used it so many times in single-player (it works beautifully on Regent level... I'll admit that I don't have any experience with it on Emperor level).

	19-12-2002 01:38									#13
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E_T, under 1.21f, you have a choice of what you get with Theory of Evolution. (I know because I still have 1.21f on my machine, and always build it.) In the earliest versions of Civ III it was always the cheapest, but that's no longer the case.

The first tech under 1.21f is always whatever you happen to be reseraching. (Which you should do by setting science to 0 so you don't waste beakers.)

You can then decide what you what to "research" for the second. They'll probably be some faulty messages saying you grabbed both techs from 2 ciivs under 1.21f, but neither of them will have that tech.

The AIs have had a lot of time to partually reserach Refinery and/or Steel by now. It may so happen that one of those techs isn't being reserached, but it's impossible to telll which one.

If we're so cash poor due to the war that we can't reserach Atomic Theory before Theory of Evolution is complete at current pace, I think we're better off slowing down the Theory of Evolution build.

quote: Originally posted by E_T I think that we should wait an see what the actual times for Atomic will be (and other techs). If it takes 9 turns to get ToE (from now) & it will take 4 turns to get one of the lesser Techs (I suggest Refining for Oil) then I say do the Research on Refining and then set the Sci Rate to 0% while waiting for ToE to come online. IF ToE is going to take 8 turns from now AND the TOC's on either Refining & other tech (can't remember its name) takes 4 turns, then we should go for Atomic at the highest rate that we can. It had been my experiance, that ToE will give you the CHEAPER Technologies first, so we are likely not to get Atomic unless we have atleast Refining before ToE activates. THis is something that will have to be decided during the Chat. We can do some planning ahead, but we will have to make the final desision based on the actual Reality, when the time does come. E_T

	19-12-2002 01:39									#14
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I've only played the 1.21 Patch in this game, so I have NO Idea if it does Allow the picking of the techs.

I Do know that it doesn't allow it in both the 1.29 Patch and the Previous patches (I stopped playing after the 2 patches previous to 1.21 had come out - The Army Stack movement problem got me out). We need to look at Vel's Threads for more Info on this.

E_T

	19-12-2002 01:42									#15
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It works beautifully in the Emperor level as well.

(Athough on my last Emperor level game, I got such a big tech lead during the late middle ages thru early mid indutrail that I ended up having to go back and reserach Corporation after the Theory of Evolution was compelete.)

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos FYI: I believe the v1.21f patch allows us to PICK techs rather than have them picked for us. This means, as I've practiced repeatedly in single-player, you can use ToE to bee-line for Electronics and Radio by getting Atomic Theory just before ToE's completion. Once you've finished Hoover's Dam, you techwhore Atomic Theory and Electronics for any techs on the Refining+Steel side of the tree that hte AI already has. I'm the one that suggested this in the turnchat because I've used it so many times in single-player (it works beautifully on Regent level... I'll admit that I don't have any experience with it on Emperor level).

	19-12-2002 01:46									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos you can use ToE to bee-line for Electronics and Radio by getting Atomic Theory just before ToE's completion. Once you've finished Hoover's Dam, you techwhore Atomic Theory and Electronics for any techs on the Refining+Steel side of the tree that hte AI already has.

--Togas

	19-12-2002 01:49									#17
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What I'm saying is, IF we can get Refining in 4 AND ToE (at that time in the chat) takes 5 more turns to complete, We Should go for Refining and get that, then We might be able to trade it for Steel and have ToE be used for Atomic & Electronics.

I am completely against selling Electronics (or even Atomic) until we have completed US AND the AI's have had to change to something else. An I think that we sould only sell Sci Meth the turn before we have completed ToE, no sooner.

IF we delay ToE any further, WE WILL NOT GET IT, as the AI will get it by switching from US to ToE when we have gotten US. THe timing of both of the Wonders (due to switching to HE at TFC), is almost Perfect. The only thing that will change any of this, is if the other Civs get a GL & use it for US. THe US build is cgoing to be close, but we should get it.

E_T

	19-12-2002 01:56									#18
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atomic power lays the foundation for the nuke. enough said

	19-12-2002 01:57									#19
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I'm in favor of selling Sci Theory but am against selling Atomic Theory & Electronics. (This is a FM call though.)

Both lessor techs can be done in 4 turns each, but the AIs have had plenty of time to be close to completing either (or BOTH) of them by now. I'm actually hoping they are currently reseraching both at a fast enough rate to where we can buy BOTH lessor techs by the time Theory of Evolution is complete and therefore get out of the Industrial age faster.

	19-12-2002 02:03									#20
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn I'm in favor of selling Sci Theory but am against selling Atomic Theory & Electronics. (This is a FM call though.) Both lessor techs can be done in 4 turns each, but the AIs have had plenty of time to be close to completing either (or BOTH) of them by now. I'm actually hoping they are currently reseraching both at a fast enough rate to where we can buy BOTH lessor techs by the time Theory of Evolution is complete and therefore get out of the Industrial age faster.

You can wait to sell them until you have Hoover's. Then sell them for all they're worth (though by then, the AI may already have Atomic Theory at least anyhow).

	19-12-2002 03:25									#21
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Am I correct that plan "a" would get us SM in 3 turns with +520 a turn. So assuming we are 3 turns from SM, we have about 7 turns to reserach something else. I see no budget problems since we will make 2000g in the next 4 turns, that should be plenty to do most upgrades and rushes.
Aggie