19-12-2002 04:06									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I think I see the problem. lack of communication. Jon is saying that women do say they are bisexual because men like that. And that is true. Most men do get turned on when women say they are bisexual. This is FACT. but does that make them an actual bisexual? What exactly is a bisexual? Do they have to keep having sex with both for the rest of their life? Or do 1 or 2 experiences with a woman count? The problem between the differing opinions is a matter of definition and miscommunication.

Well it comes down to an issue of definition in the end. Lets face it, our model of sexuality is ridiculous...people should be able to **** who they want and be respected for it and not feel the need to fit into these neat categories...

	19-12-2002 04:07									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I think you should be more eplicit about the pressure Jon Miller

I think he should be more explicit about claimed.
Claiming and doing is not always the same.

	19-12-2002 04:08									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Asher So by this logic nothing exists unless you can see it first hand? Doesn't this conflict with your religious beliefs?

I could take it on Faith that there are true Bisexuals (despite all evidence that there are not)

but I don't really see any reason to do that

Jon Miller

	19-12-2002 04:08									#34
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand I think he should be more explicit about [I]claimed]/I]. Claiming and doing is not always the same.

That's why I used the word claimed to begin with.

I think it's impossible for peer pressure to make someone bisexual, but I think it's entirely possible for it to make someone claim to be bisexual.

	19-12-2002 04:10									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I could take it on Faith that there are true Bisexuals (despite all evidence that there are not) but I don't really see any reason to do that Jon Miller

But you do see a reason to take it on faith that some mythical being created this world, even though all of the evidence points to him not existing?

Nevermind Jon, I don't want to start a religious debate. I just find it fascinating that you take it on faith that there is a God but refuse to take it on faith that there are bisexuals on the basis that you don't know any true bisexuals.

On a tiny tangent, how would you describe me? Am I really gay, or am I really straight?

	19-12-2002 04:12									#36
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I know people who claim to be bisexuals

so it is not the same

Jon Miller
(also there being a God is fundamental to being me, there being bisexuals is not)

	19-12-2002 04:13									#37
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"I think it's impossible for peer pressure to make someone bisexual, but I think it's entirely possible for it to make someone claim to be bisexual."

I agree, 100 % .

	19-12-2002 04:14									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Asher But you do see a reason to take it on faith that some mythical being created this world, even though all of the evidence points to him not existing? Nevermind Jon, I don't want to start a religious debate. I just find it fascinating that you take it on faith that there is a God but refuse to take it on faith that there are bisexuals on the basis that you don't know any true bisexuals. On a tiny tangent, how would you describe me? Am I really gay, or am I really straight?

I don't know you well enugoh

Jon Miller

	19-12-2002 04:15									#39
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Being God may be fundamental to being you, but that doesn't mean anything in the big picture of how you decide what to put your faith in...

By that logic, I could claim to be the devil and take it on faith that it is true, because being the devil is fundamental to being me?

	19-12-2002 04:15									#40
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand "I think it's impossible for peer pressure to make someone bisexual, but I think it's entirely possible for it to make someone claim to be bisexual." I agree, 100 % .

I agree with that statement also

whether there are true bisexuals or not

Jon Miller

	19-12-2002 04:18									#41
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or have sex with a gender they normally dont havw with..

	19-12-2002 04:19									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Being God may be fundamental to being you, but that doesn't mean anything in the big picture of how you decide what to put your faith in... By that logic, I could claim to be the devil and take it on faith that it is true, because being the devil is fundamental to being me?

I beleive in God because I choose to

basically it is a choice, do you accept God or not?

Jon Miller

	19-12-2002 04:20									#43
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I just wanted to make sure it was arbitrary.

	19-12-2002 05:50									#44
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I know people who became bisexuals just because it is cool, stupid Placebo fans.
Almost everyone in hole.com claims to be bi.

	19-12-2002 05:55									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I just wanted to make sure it was arbitrary.

/

I choose to have faith

so could you

try it

Jon Miller

	19-12-2002 06:10									#46
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You could choose to believe in Zues. Try it.

	19-12-2002 06:13									#47
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the Christian God is the god I choose to beleive in

Jon Mioller

	19-12-2002 06:20									#48
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It's still arbitrary.

	19-12-2002 06:25									#49
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I think that the vast majority of the population would be perfectly fine with bisexuality if that was the societal norm. I think that only a small fraction of the population is "naturally" either completley gay or completely straight, although a larger chunk would perhaps have a preference one way or the other. Just look at sex on ships in the old days (or prisons today) even when it was punishable by death it happened all the time, all people need is a little push
That said, I don't think any concievable peer pressure would (at this point) make me claim to be bisexual and act on it (although I'd probably do just as loinberger's friends did for "skanktified action" ) because the society I've grown up in has sunk pretty deep into my consciousness and I don't see any good reason to try to pry it out...

	19-12-2002 06:28									#50
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see, I don't think any of those things are true bisexuality (ships or prisons)

rather they are just people being hedonists

there is a huge difference

Jon Miller

	19-12-2002 06:36									#51
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Bisexuals are merely people who don't have any wiring in their brain to tell the difference between any gender they're attracted to.

I don't see why some people don't think they exist. It reminds me somewhat of some hardcore Christians who insist homosexuals do not exist, and can be "cured"...

Now most people have admitted homosexuals exist, but bisexuals are still nonexistant.

Some day we'll figure it all out.

	19-12-2002 06:45									#52
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as I said, I am willing to change my hypothesis if new evidence comes to my attention

Jon Miller

	19-12-2002 07:07									#53
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quote: see, I don't think any of those things are true bisexuality (ships or prisons) rather they are just people being hedonists there is a huge difference

So people who only have hedonistic sex are asexual?

	19-12-2002 07:15									#54
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no, they are truly straight or homosexual

they just are not following their sexuality

Jon Miller

	19-12-2002 07:17									#55
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I think you just need a large sample size, Jon.

	19-12-2002 07:17									#56
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if you think about it, the ultimate sexual hedonist just thinks about getting off

so wether it is a guy, a girl or a hole in the whole, it is good

sexuality is different than getting off

I beleive Boris has had sex with women, but even when he was doing so, he was still gay

Jon Miller

	19-12-2002 07:25									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller if you think about it, the ultimate sexual hedonist just thinks about getting off so wether it is a guy, a girl or a hole in the whole, it is good sexuality is different than getting off I beleive Boris has had sex with women, but even when he was doing so, he was still gay Jon Miller

My sleeping with a woman could be said to have been hedonism, I suppose. But I don't see what hedonism has to do with sexual orientation. If a bisexual participates in sex with men/women/various orifices just for getting off, then he would still be a bisexual, too, just as I was still gay whilst porking the lady.

	19-12-2002 07:57									#58
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I was not implying that you were hedonistic (but maybe you were), merely that you were confused

which is one of the things I think many bisexuals are

Jon Miller

	19-12-2002 07:58									#59
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Many "bisexuals" are, bisexuals are not.

	19-12-2002 08:15									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I was not implying that you were hedonistic (but maybe you were), merely that you were confused which is one of the things I think many bisexuals are Jon Miller

I was being hedonistic, I suppose, because at the time I certainly knew I was gay. It was a "what's this like?" moment.

I think many bisexuals are hedonists, too. But they're still bisexuals. I think many heterosexuals are hedonists. I know many homosexuals are...