19-12-2002 04:25									#1
	Iron Curtain MP Scenario Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

For the guys that come from civfanatics:
Hereīs the file. Please download it.

For the new ones:
This is a Cold War Scenario. Only for multilplayer. Itīs a beta version. ok?
If you want more info, go here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...y=&pagenumber=1

Attachment: iron1.zip
This has been downloaded 143 time(s).

	19-12-2002 04:51									#2
	Tired of ads?

Can I play as the Hungarians and lead a successful revolution?

	19-12-2002 04:54									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Can I play as the Hungarians and lead a successful revolution?

	19-12-2002 07:47									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I hate to criticize a scenario, but Vietnam was historically a Russian client state, not a Chinese one

Would it make more sense to make Vietnam a Rebel country, but perhaps put a Chinese/Russian infantry in Hanoi so that a "successful" war would necessarily involve its backers?

Also, hadn't Yugoslavia split from the Iron Curtain by '64?

Last edited by Iron Chancellor on 19-12-2002 at 07:58

	19-12-2002 08:01									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: I hate to criticize a scenario in progress, but Vietnam was historically a Russian client state, not a Chinese one

Well, i asked that question in the civfanatics thread. People told me to include that country in the Chinese sphere

quote: Would it make more sense to make Vietnam a Rebel country, but perhaps put a Chinese/Russian infantry in Hanoi so that a "successful" war would necessarily involve its backers?

The problem is that a Rebel State attacks everyone.
The AI may try to attack China too
Moreover, in the long run the country would end in USA hands. The AI is stupid, so the US player will eventually win the war without big problems.

	19-12-2002 08:05									#6
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Also, hadn't Yugoslavia split from the Iron Curtain by '64?

One more time, I asked that in the civfanatics site.

In some way, these decisions (Yugoslavia, Vietnam) were decided in a "democratic way".
I asked the questions, and everybody gave their opinions. I took them into account and made a decision.

Please, remember that this is a Civ2 scenario. Yea, we try to recreate history; but in some cases we should priorize playabilty over historical accuracy.
Plus, in this case, itīs a "what if" scenario.

	19-12-2002 08:12									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Gotcha, didn't mean to criticize, just suggest.

	19-12-2002 08:16									#8
	Increase the size of your Attachments

No! Please! donīt misunderstand me.
I appreciate your suggestions.
I just was trying to say that we had talked about these topics in civfanatics. So, in some way I felt that they were solved. Thatīs all

	19-12-2002 09:50									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I want Hungary!

	19-12-2002 10:05									#10
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

My sister just got back from a business trip to Budapest. Congratulations on your beautiful capital.

	19-12-2002 12:44									#11
	Inflate your Upload Space

Vietnam did historically fight a short war with China, around 1977 I believe...Still, it's just a trivia bit that came to mind, so don't take it as an attack or somesuch.

	19-12-2002 19:18									#12
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Yugoslavia parted with the Russians as far back as 1947, and was led by a milder communist regime from then on.
Albania did the same in 1960, but instead fell into complete isolation and a tyrannical stalinist government.

	20-12-2002 05:11									#13
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Wasn't Albania under Chinese influence?

	20-12-2002 05:20									#14
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: it's just a trivia bit that came to mind, so don't take it as an attack or somesuch.

Yea, i know it.

Iīm just trying to point out that the decisions about this "problematic countries" have been decided. And I wonīt change them. ok?
Nothing personal against you.

One more time:
Remember that this is a Civ2 scenario. Yea, we try to recreate history; but in some cases we should priorize playabilty over historical accuracy.

An example? Look at german possesions in the scenario "Imperialism 1870" Germany has Norway and Sweden. Is that historically accurate? NO
Does it make the scenario less fun? NO

If you want to say something about unit characterstics like attack, movements rates or bugs in the game. Please, do it.
Iīm not an ogre. Iīll listen your comments and take them into account
If you donīt believe me, go to the civfanatics thread

	20-12-2002 05:24									#15
	Full PM-box? Change here!

BTW, this is a new .scn file:

This is a MP scenario. I assume that you can play a singleplayer if you disable nuclear weapons.
Or if you just want to fight against a crazy "nuke-the-entire-world" AI, go ahead and have fun

Attachment: iron curtain.zip
This has been downloaded 22 time(s).

	21-12-2002 07:17									#16
	Tired of ads?

NEW VERSION!!!!
Problems fixed:
* Spy texts
* Bridge Building problem
* Transport in Denver
* City bribing option eliminated
* All the "future techs" (relevant for future periods) checked

Last edited by academia on 21-12-2002 at 07:26

	21-12-2002 07:32									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Iron Curtain Version 0.2

Attachment: iron v0.2.zip
This has been downloaded 27 time(s).

	22-12-2002 01:09									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

UPDATED VERSION 0.3
Problems solved:
* Wonder of the World buildable
* ICBM were cheaper than MRBM. Solved
* Problems in the civilopedia entries
* Wrong city names
* Dresden is under soviet hands

Attachment: iron v0.3.zip
This has been downloaded 108 time(s).

	22-12-2002 01:12									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Iron Chancellor I hate to criticize a scenario, but Vietnam was historically a Russian client state, not a Chinese one

Ideologically, Vientnam was much closer to China than Russia, but really they were their own breed. Client state of the soviets is a bit of an overstatement.

EDIT - And as long as I'm posting. The DR had (has) about as much independence from the US as Bielorussia had from the USSR in the soviet years.

	22-12-2002 04:35									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Really? I knew they received support from the Chinese, but I always thought it was the Russians who were their primary backers

By the way, you're right, "client state" is too strong. They did, however, purchase all their armaments save those they could make from Russia

	22-12-2002 06:33									#21
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Military tactics were all pretty much Maoist, as was the model of peasant revolution. (Which was considered unviable by Soviets - "revisionist" if you will.)
The consolidation of power by the communists over the independentists in the NLF was precipitated by US intervention. Since the communist faction had good links with Soviets/Chinese, they were in much better standing than the liberal nationalists to lead the independence movement.
Similar to Cuba, in that regard.

	22-12-2002 19:24									#22
	Put an end to popups!

At some point I'd like to see you give credit to the various artists you've ripped off.

	23-12-2002 00:03									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: At some point I'd like to see you give credit to the various artists you've ripped off.

You may have noticed that this is a test and I havenīt created a "README" file yet...

	23-12-2002 02:50									#24
	Remove this text

Wow, calm down Andrew, you and everyone else will get credit for sure!!!

Pap

	06-02-2003 03:21									#25
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

NEWS
Version 0.4 Update

CITIES / POLITICAL CHANGES
* Mongolia will remain in chinese hands
* NATO Headquarters moved to Brussels
* US Guntanamo Bay Base included
* NATO/SEATO cities with civil disorder problem solved
* Ecuador and Peru became part of Non-Alligned Nations
* Colombia became Rebel
* Established Portuguese colony in Timor
* Established UK colony in Falkland Islands
* El Paso renamed to Tijuana
* US airbase in Switzerland moved to German territory
* Removed US nuke missiles in Turkey
* Increased population of Shiraz, Addis Abbeba, Kabul and Aden
* Hue renamed to Dong Hoi
* Norway free of nuclear weapons

IMPROVEMENTS / WONDER OF THE WORLD CHANGES
* Sold police stations in communist countries
* Wall Street relocated
* Modifications in wonders of the world / city improvements civilopedia texts
* Cosmodrome Wonder counts as a Research Center in every city
* Problem fixed: Anybody could build First Space Walk / Arms Race / Intelligence Agency
* Arms Race Wonder built in Detroit. ITīS OBSOLETE
* Forbidden City Wonder made obsolete
* Accurate location of nuclear plants in 1965

UNITS CHANGES
* Created Black Sea Fleet for the USSR
* Paratroopers ranged increased to 7
* Reduction in the number of american units in Vietnam
* Rebel Forces are stronger
* NATO carriers reduced to 3
* Nuclear Forces balance changed. USA 28 vs. USSR 15
* Replaced ZSU-23 for BM-21
* Replaced Type 63 for ZSU-23
* Reduced number of Non-Alligned troops in the entire world

VARIOUS
* Reputation of all civs cleaned
* Railroads problem solved
* Tanks carrying units / missiles with ZOC problem solved
* Events.txt file redesigned

	06-02-2003 03:23									#26
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Guys:
Iīm not planning to release the version 0.4 yet, ok?
Iīm posting this just to inform you about advances in the scenario. Thatīs all

	06-02-2003 03:42									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

EVENTS.TXT Details

* Usual "citytaken" commands included + text
* List of cities? The most important in the coldwar. Moscow, Berlin, Seoul, Saigon, etc.
* Guerrillas in Central America
* Increased number of FARC / Insurgents armies in Colombia
* Chad Civil War
* Communist rebels in Yemen
* Communist guerrillas in Bolivia
* Naxalite Uprising in India
* Coup dīétat in Nigeria
* Free Papua Movement Uprising in Indonesia

	06-02-2003 04:39									#28
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by academia You may have noticed that this is a test and I havenīt created a "README" file yet...

If this scenario was being directly emailed to playtesters, that answer would be OK. But since it's being posted here and downloaded freely by large numbers of people, it's really not OK. Since you've posted multiple versions with fixes and updates, perhaps your next update (very soon, I hope) will fix this.

	08-04-2003 18:10									#29
	Support Apolyton

Academia, when are you going to do your readme and give credit to those (including me) from whom you have "borrowed" units and other graphics?

	08-04-2003 20:39									#30
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

To be honest, i was waiting to finish some of the current PBEM tests and then release a new, complete version.

Anyway, hereīs the units credits file i made

quote: give credit to those (including me) from whom you have "borrowed" units and other graphics?

Mmm... apart from the graphics, iīm not sure about the authors of icons and terrains...
Could you tell which graphics are yours?