19-12-2002 06:51									#1
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Since we can`t colonize moons now, I wonder how exactly they`ll benefit us. Vaugely we`ve been told that they add 'minerals' and 'bioharvesting' and etc, but I wonder how much exactly and especially in the case of double planets (or double gas giants)? And since they`re not colonizable, how can we get our minerals and etc properly allocated and used by DEAs?

	19-12-2002 07:16									#2
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I still think they will have a huge benifit. Each moon can have a orbital and still has a area that will be blacked out to sensors for fleets to hide behind. And that isn't mentioning the bonuses to domestic production of DEAs. I won't overlook them.

	19-12-2002 09:04									#3
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I am sure someone will correct me if i am wrong...

Teh moons are an additional region of the plante... the planets are broken up into regions - with respective bio and mineral capabilites - and the moon is just another.

From some previous threads... this came to pass due to the overwhelming number of colonies that would need to be managed (auto or manual) if a massive galaxy had up to 8 planets/system with several moons per planet.

I will be waiting to see how defence DEAs and Tactical combat is managed w/ moons as part of a planet. I know moon will rotate about a planet but there is some sense in putting specific defensive utilites on the moon on the 50/50 chance the moon is on the same side as the attackers. Also, a planet with several moons would almost present a screen that aggressors would have to pass to get at the planet - if they were built up then i pitty the fool who has to run that gauntlet. But i dont know the rotational and orbital mechanics of plantes/moons in the game so it is only conjecture at this point.

IMHO

	20-12-2002 02:26									#4
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So just how far from the origional game concept has the game diverged?

I quote from http://www.us.infogrames.com/games/moo3/

- Explore rich solar systems, complete with jump lanes, worm holes and hostile alien races. Piece togther the mysteries of the "Orion 5 X's" and bring your people into a golden age of prosperity.

Jump lanes? so we have abandoned the great playing format of being able to send a fleet off to any star system within your range? Now we can only travel in specific paths?

- Play one of 16 Unique Races or create your own Custom Race.

At least thats not changed, WHEW!

- Dynamic Galaxy Generation ensures that no two games are ever the same.

Thats great, just how its supposed to be.

- Choose your style of play; use oppressive force to crush your enemies and beat your people into submission or employ subtle negotiation to scheme your way to the top.

A diplomatic win? Is that like being elected supreme ruler by the councel of races? I never acepted their judgment and went mid-evil on their arses.

- Research and Design exotic ships and weapons to crush your enemies.

As it should be.

- Galactic Councils and diplomacy of never-before-achieved richness and depth. Trade technology, make and break treaties, demand tribute and propose Bills in the Orion Senate.

Sounds like an expansion of MOO2 to pass laws against space littering? Keep off the grass?

- Colossal Space Battles that feature beautiful, tactical real-time combat resolution that keeps play moving at a brisk pace.

PLEASE tell me that we can play WITHOUT tatical combat! Dont make me fall asleep as every life-pod has a dozen options to manipulate during battle. Can I at least watch other players space battles so that im not just looking at a prompt that says 'Other player having fun'. And who determined what a 'brisk pace' is?

- Shadowy game-within-a-game; use espionage, betrayal, subversion and assassination to seat yourself in the highest chair of Orion.

Sounds like MOO2, hope it works. Are these actions still performed by hired leaders, or is it all in the humans hands now?

- Slick and intuitive interface makes navigation and gameplay a snap for novice players.

Ive seen the screen-shots, its very blue.

- Robust Multiplayer lets 8 players slug it out for galactic domination.

Who has EVER enjoyed a multiplayer game with 8 people in it? Who has the 3 days it would take to play?

- Simultaneous Turn-Based Play keeps multiplayer gameplay moving along at a brisk pace.

That makes me shudder, many have tried to make a engine that does that, many have failed.

When looking at the interface for MOO1 and MOO2 you can see that they are related, and they share alot of game play styles. How far away will MOO3 be? will people be able to see at a glance that its 'supposed' to be an expansion of the first 2 games? I for one will be highly disapointed if MOO3 is a different game alltogether and just using the MOO name to grab sales. The more time that passes before the game is released lets me look at more and more spoilers, and im not liking what im seeing.

I expect a few derogitory replies to this post, but perhaps somebody will be kind enough to hold my hand and explaine a few things to me. It would be ever so nice of you to do so.

	20-12-2002 03:10									#5
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Can't answer a lot of your questions, sorry.

quote: Originally posted by Tolver PLEASE tell me that we can play WITHOUT tatical combat! Dont make me fall asleep as every life-pod has a dozen options to manipulate during battle. Can I at least watch other players space battles so that im not just looking at a prompt that says 'Other player having fun'. And who determined what a 'brisk pace' is?

IIRC, you can't control specific ships (and certainly not life pods) all that much anymore. Instead, you give general directions to groups of ships, and the AI commands the individual ships. Or, if you don't even want fleet-level control, you can have the AI fight the entire battle for you while you watch. (Or just don't watch at all if you prefer.)

quote: - Shadowy game-within-a-game; use espionage, betrayal, subversion and assassination to seat yourself in the highest chair of Orion. Sounds like MOO2, hope it works. Are these actions still performed by hired leaders, or is it all in the humans hands now?

Don't know much about espionage (you'll probably have to ask a beta tester), but it sounds like hiring & training is pretty simple. It also sounds very powerful; I think there was one preview that mentioned, playing as the Evon (the great spying race), being able to bring a race to the negotiating table one turn after they declared war, simply because of all the damage dealt with spies.

	20-12-2002 10:26									#6
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Spying within an alien empire has always struck me as odd… especially for radically different species.

Evon spying on humans:
"Hey, do you think that 7 foot tall coal black dude with glowing eyes might be an alien spy?"
"No, that's the gardener. He's from Jamaica. I let him play Minefield on my secured computer."

Evon spying on Tachidi:
"MMMmmm, look—snack food!"
"Dibs on the legs! You got them last time…"

Evon spying on Trilarians:
"You found an Evon?"
"Well, we're pretty sure that's what it was before its diving vessel was crushed…"

Evon spying on Meklar:
"Biological entity attempting to interface."
"Routing high amperage signal onto communications line. Sensors detect carbon-based molecular particles in resulting smoke. Life signs negative."

	20-12-2002 10:33									#7
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I agree with that. I think it should be extremely difficult to spy on aliens unless the alien for some reason had some of your specie in its dominion and were thusly habituated to them.

My plan for the first game is to have an iron fist, genocidal dictatorship. No friggin` ants or sentient sushi will steal my weapon plans!

	20-12-2002 15:58									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Tolver Jump lanes? so we have abandoned the great playing format of being able to send a fleet off to any star system within your range? Now we can only travel in specific paths?

Off-lane travel is still in. It just takes longer than using jump lanes.

quote: - Galactic Councils and diplomacy of never-before-achieved richness and depth. Trade technology, make and break treaties, demand tribute and propose Bills in the Orion Senate. Sounds like an expansion of MOO2 to pass laws against space littering? Keep off the grass?

Something like that. But you don't have to join the senate if you don't want to.

quote: PLEASE tell me that we can play WITHOUT tatical combat! Dont make me fall asleep as every life-pod has a dozen options to manipulate during battle. Can I at least watch other players space battles so that im not just looking at a prompt that says 'Other player having fun'. And who determined what a 'brisk pace' is?

Yes, you can let the AI take charge of Combat. You can either watch that battle or you can do a quick "Resolve Battle". As for other player's battles: you can't watch them. Why should you be able to?

quote: - Shadowy game-within-a-game; use espionage, betrayal, subversion and assassination to seat yourself in the highest chair of Orion. Sounds like MOO2, hope it works. Are these actions still performed by hired leaders, or is it all in the humans hands now?

Subversion? Assassination? In MOO2? What game have you been playing?

quote: Who has EVER enjoyed a multiplayer game with 8 people in it? Who has the 3 days it would take to play?

Play on a small map. Since all players take their turns simulaneously it shouln't take too long.

quote: - Simultaneous Turn-Based Play keeps multiplayer gameplay moving along at a brisk pace. That makes me shudder, many have tried to make a engine that does that, many have failed.

You really haven't played MOO2 on multiplayer, have you? It's the same there. And why doesn't it work?

Maybe you should do more research on MOO3 other than reading the IG announcement. Try the Orion Sector for a start.

	20-12-2002 20:53									#9
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quote: Subversion? Assassination? In MOO2? What game have you been playing?

My favorite leader to hire is Draxx the spy master, he assassinates other players spies. And spies as we all know can do sabotage and espionage.

quote: You really haven't played MOO2 on multiplayer, have you? It's the same there. And why doesn't it work?

While MOO2 is 'Simultaneous Turn-Based Play', other games have tried it as well, and failed. SMAC never worked for me that way, allways crashed, it only worked when we switched to non Simultaneous Turn-Based Play. This is a new game engine, I hope that its as stable as MOO2.

quote: Maybe you should do more research on MOO3 other than reading the IG announcement.

Well duh? Thats what this process is about, im researching the subject of MOO3, one aspect was to go the path that I did. I think that ive asked some good questions, and thats how you learn things, by asking questions. (Cant believe I just quoted Carl from the Simpsons). So be calm there little settler, im thankfull for your input, and we are all gathering what scraps of knowledge about MOO3 that are avaliable, perhaps we will have the game figured out before it hits the stores.

	20-12-2002 23:03									#10
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From what I remember about the space lanes, you can in theory travel anywhere without them...but it takes a REALLY long time to do so. It's not beneficial. I'm all in favor of space lanes, personally - it makes tactical decisions about expansion and colonization much more important.

Spying nowadays almost always has to do with converting a local person to your cause. The US didn't insert a bunch of southerners into Russia and expect them to blend; we hired a bunch of midlevel managers and paid them to watch for us. Same likely goes for spying between races. In addition, you can have wily diplomats, covert ops, that sort of thing. Spying isn't just hanging around and listening to conversations, after all...it's assassination, sabotage, hacking...all of which can be done with zero contact of the alien race in question.

It was a funny post, however.