19-12-2002 11:29									#1
	Slider planning Remove this text

Basis 1270 save

Tech costs V1.21 Huge map
Sci meth 100*40=4000 beakers
Atomic Theory 180*40=7200 beakers

Beaker estimates from appropriate saves
1265 60% 916 beakers (actual)
1270 60% 933 beakers
1270 70% 1095 beakers
1270 90% 1411 beakers
1270 100% 1564 beakers


History: Started SciMeth at 60% science in 1265

1265 60% 916
1270 60% 933
1275 70% 1095
1280 70% 1095
*** 4039 Sci Meth achieved
start Atomic Theory

1285 100% 1564
1290 90% 1411
1295 90% 1411
1300 90% 1411
1305 90% 1411
*** 7208 Atomic Theory achieved
start Electronics

1310 0% zero
G-Town produces ToE
Get Electronics
Select Radio
Get Radio
Select something from the top bracket

1315 to suit 4 turn selected tech

All cash flows are positive, some barely
Supports upgrade plan which consumes essentially all of 1270 and 1275 cash flow
about 500 uncommitted in 1280
about 40 uncommitted in 1285
about 150 per turn uncommitted 1290 thru 1305
about 1500 uncommitted in 1310

	19-12-2002 11:35									#2
	Re: Slider planning Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by roadcage Basis 1270 save Tech costs V1.21 Huge map Sci meth 100*40=4000 beakers Atomic Theory 180*40=7200 beakers Beaker estimates from appropriate saves 1265 60% 916 beakers (actual) 1270 60% 933 beakers 1270 70% 1095 beakers 1270 90% 1411 beakers 1270 100% 1564 beakers History: Started SciMeth at 60% science in 1265 1265 60% 916 1270 60% 933 1275 70% 1095 1280 70% 1095 *** 4039 Sci Meth achieved start Atomic Theory 1285 100% 1564 1290 90% 1411 1295 90% 1411 1300 90% 1411 1305 90% 1411 *** 7208 Atomic Theory achieved start Electronics 1310 0% zero G-Town produces ToE Get Electronics Select Radio Get Radio Select something from the top bracket 1315 to suit 4 turn selected tech All cash flows are positive, some barely Supports upgrade plan which consumes essentially all of 1270 and 1275 cash flow about 500 uncommitted in 1280 about 40 uncommitted in 1285 about 150 per turn uncommitted 1290 thru 1305 about 1500 uncommitted in 1310

roadcage,

This helps a lot. I'm not sure about 1-2 of the assumptions, but I'm too tired to look into that at this time of night and I'll just assume that you did your homework

As for the upgrades, I need to get the full numbers from E_T on what he wants/needs in terms of a time-table for them. If so, I may have to tweak whatever from the above plan (with any alterations joncnunn suggests as well).

As a baseline from which to work with, this is EXTREMELY useful

	19-12-2002 21:08									#3
	Re: Slider planning Increase the size of your Attachments

My own reference chart at home states that Atomic Theory is 200 * 40 = 8000 beakers.

At 100%, Atomic Theory takes 5.115 -> 6 turns to reserach if the economy doesn't significantly grow.

quote: Originally posted by roadcage Basis 1270 save Tech costs V1.21 Huge map Sci meth 100*40=4000 beakers Atomic Theory 180*40=7200 beakers Beaker estimates from appropriate saves 1265 60% 916 beakers (actual) 1270 60% 933 beakers 1270 70% 1095 beakers 1270 90% 1411 beakers 1270 100% 1564 beakers History: Started SciMeth at 60% science in 1265 1265 60% 916 1270 60% 933 1275 70% 1095 1280 70% 1095 *** 4039 Sci Meth achieved start Atomic Theory 1285 100% 1564 1290 90% 1411 1295 90% 1411 1300 90% 1411 1305 90% 1411 *** 7208 Atomic Theory achieved start Electronics 1310 0% zero G-Town produces ToE Get Electronics Select Radio Get Radio Select something from the top bracket 1315 to suit 4 turn selected tech All cash flows are positive, some barely Supports upgrade plan which consumes essentially all of 1270 and 1275 cash flow about 500 uncommitted in 1280 about 40 uncommitted in 1285 about 150 per turn uncommitted 1290 thru 1305 about 1500 uncommitted in 1310

	19-12-2002 22:12									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

The base beaker costs come from a virgin editor bic file.

	19-12-2002 22:20									#5
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All of the patches adjusted the virgin editor bic file, several had adjustments on tech costs.

quote: Originally posted by roadcage The base beaker costs come from a virgin editor bic file.

	19-12-2002 23:01									#6
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

We will see in about 3 turns. The real question is Why did you go off on a useless poll tangent instead of posting a meaningful planning document?

Inquiring minds need to know.

	20-12-2002 03:23									#7
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hi ,

great calculations , we needed those
they should be updated when needed

have a nice day

	20-12-2002 03:29									#8
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Cool
:d

	20-12-2002 03:31									#9
	Re: Slider planning Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by roadcage Select Radio Get Radio

Why Radio? Tanks are the next useful tech.

	20-12-2002 03:43									#10
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Why Radio? Tanks are the next useful tech.

Radio is a very expensive tech. The techs from the top branch, Refining and Steel are much cheaper. Picking the most expensive tech available at the time for free is simply good beaker management. Which of course is what the thread topic is all about.

	20-12-2002 03:51									#11
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roadcage,

Precisely the argument I gave in the last chat - Radio costs more beakers

My other argument for Radio is that it is highly unlikely that any of the AI's will research to it by the time we finish Hoover's Dam... meaning that we can hold on to it for a quite a while (the construction time for Hoover's) before we techwhore it and it will still be valuable.

	20-12-2002 03:55									#12
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Agreed with Roadcage on the desirablity of having Theory of Evolution grant us Radio for free.

On Refining & Steel, I'm hoping the AI will finish researching at least one of those two techs before we complete Theory of Evolution so we have Tanks & Bombers faster.

On Tanks being the most useful after Hoover, as soon as Theory of Evolution is complete, I'll post a poll to gauge weather we want Bombers or Tanks first.
In my own games, I always go for Tanks, but this is related to me always building the Colosus which expires with the discovery of Flight.

	20-12-2002 03:58									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Or if we build up enough of a tech lead, deny the AIs Radio to keep them out of the modern era until we have the UN and have removed Urainum sources from nearby hostile neighbors.

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos roadcage, Precisely the argument I gave in the last chat - Radio costs more beakers My other argument for Radio is that it is highly unlikely that any of the AI's will research to it by the time we finish Hoover's Dam... meaning that we can hold on to it for a quite a while (the construction time for Hoover's) before we techwhore it and it will still be valuable.

	20-12-2002 04:04									#14
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Or if we build up enough of a tech lead, deny the AIs Radio to keep them out of the modern era until we have the UN and have removed Urainum sources from nearby hostile neighbors.

hi ,

, indeed removing uranium and aluminium would be magnificent , ..... our armies would get elite status in no time fighting old obsolte units

have a nice day

	20-12-2002 07:55									#15
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Tanks can be built right away, Bombers & Fighters (for Vet Status) will need an Airport first.

SMC wants tanks to take out the Others Infantry.

E_T

	20-12-2002 08:07									#16
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quote: Originally posted by E_T Tanks can be built right away, Bombers & Fighters (for Vet Status) will need an Airport first. SMC wants tanks to take out the Others Infantry. E_T

While this is true, bombers are powerful enough to warrant at least thinking about their utility. Bombers also serve another role... you can bomb into oblivion cities you have no intention of conquering (because they would just bee too corrupt to be worth holding).

	20-12-2002 09:26									#17
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I too would recomend that we build tanks, they will be very useful for the english/greek war. 20 tanks with artillery support can run down just about anything including infantry. Traditionally in these war I use about 10 bombers to assist the attack.
Aggie

	20-12-2002 09:57									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Aggie they will be very useful for the english/greek war

You are assuming that there will BE an english/greek war. I'd personally count on the English one being far more likely than the Greek, but both are very questionable affairs... (if the poll conducted on wars was any indication)

	20-12-2002 20:41									#19
	Tired of ads?

Te first part is an argument for the discovery of Flight first; getting the pre-builds of Airports out of the way before we get the Tank tech.

quote: Originally posted by E_T Tanks can be built right away, Bombers & Fighters (for Vet Status) will need an Airport first. SMC wants tanks to take out the Others Infantry. E_T

	21-12-2002 00:54									#20
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hi ,

tanks are great , but when do we need this war , .....

can we wait untill mech infantry or is that to far away

do we really need tanks before a war , or do we have the possibility to go in before we have them , and add those tanks while the war is in progress

have a nice day

	21-12-2002 01:09									#21
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I'd prefer avoiding wars after late Industrail era. They are very time consuming and could give Presidents aching wrists from the movement of units.

20 Tanks would be nice just to keep the peace. Especally after they are upgraded to modern armor and our infentry is upgraded to Mechs.

There's some cities where it will be more cost effective to build modern armor as Tanks and then upgrade, while other cities should wait and build modern armor instead.

	21-12-2002 01:34									#22
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by joncnunn I'd prefer avoiding wars after late Industrail era. They are very time consuming and could give Presidents aching wrists from the movement of units. 20 Tanks would be nice just to keep the peace. Especally after they are upgraded to modern armor and our infentry is upgraded to Mechs. There's some cities where it will be more cost effective to build modern armor as Tanks and then upgrade, while other cities should wait and build modern armor instead.

hi ,

, fifthy modern armor and some nukes would do a far better job then only a couple , .......

and if we build something we might aswell build in from the start , ..... a couple a turn can be done , while the other cities build improvements , and when they have build the unit we let it build something else , we should do the biggest cities like this , a unit , some buildings , a unit , some buildings , ......

have a nice day

	21-12-2002 01:45									#23
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by joncnunn I'd prefer avoiding wars after late Industrail era. They are very time consuming and could give Presidents aching wrists from the movement of units. 20 Tanks would be nice just to keep the peace. Especally after they are upgraded to modern armor and our infentry is upgraded to Mechs. There's some cities where it will be more cost effective to build modern armor as Tanks and then upgrade, while other cities should wait and build modern armor instead.

The best way to do it is to build all of the improvements in our core cities FIRST. Once a city has every conceivable improvement, there's typically a time window where it has nothing to build other than military units (and such a city normally has enough production to pump them out fairly quickly).

If we chose this (much better) route, we could literally be having our sizable empire pumping out continuous streams of high-end military units not too far down the road. The key to this strategy, however, is NOT FIGHTING WARS LONG ENOUGH TO COMPLETE THOSE IMPROVEMENTS AND LET THE REST OF THE CITIES CATCH UP That may mean quite a long time w/o war because we're so woefully behind on improvement construction.

Quite frankly, the next possibility for a knock-down war (and by then it would be a cakewalk...) would be when we get our hands on modern armor... (assuming our opponent doesn't have nukes).

	21-12-2002 03:17									#24
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On the original topic, it looks like The Theory of Evolution build may be delayed a few turns. If we obtain a GL, the chain reactions would probably put us back on scheldue, but for planning purposes I can't count on it.

If following the discovery of Atmoic Theory, it's going to be 6+ turns before Theory of Evolution is complete, reserach a cheap top level tech in 4 turns while waiting.

(I've added this to the Sceince Advisory)

	21-12-2002 05:05									#25
	Increase Your PM Length

The ToE build should NOT be delayed. If the other Civs get Sci Method before we have completed building US AND the ToE build is delayed, then we will NOT get it!!!!

This is serious. I've invested a lot of time, figuring out the current Other Civ builds of US, and THAT's why it was o.k. for me to change the TFC build to HE an then back to US. I have also figured that our build of ToE will be JUST before the others get it, IF they are able to change to ToE.

We will get US before the AI (unless they get a GL). But delaying ToE in any way will mean that WE WON"T GET IT!

E_T