20-12-2002 00:06									#31
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"President Bush and Colin Powell are sitting in a bar when a
fellow walks in and asks the bartender, "Isn't that Bush and
Powell sitting over there?"


The barman says, "Yep, that's them."
So he walks over and says, "Wow, this is a real honor. What
are you guys doing in here?"
Bush says, "We're planning World War III."
"Really? What's going to happen?"


Bush says, "Well, we're going to kill 40 million Iraqis and
one blonde with big tits."
The guy exclaimed, "A blonde with big tits? Why kill a blonde
with big tits?"
Bush turns to Powell, punches him on the shoulder and says,
"See, smart ass!? I told you no one would worry about the 40
million Iraqis..."

	20-12-2002 00:13									#32
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The Emperor is **** Cheney

Darth Vader is John Ashcroft

	20-12-2002 00:22									#33
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Che, of course it's been going on for a long time. If we go the opposite direction.. no more coca cola, no more mcdonalds, no more Survivor and Fear Factor. And that's enough to fight .. to death!

	20-12-2002 00:25									#34
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It has to be for internal consumption...


I mean it's plainer than the sun here that the US has does and will invariably screw around in other countries whenever it can. (not only the US but it has the biggest velinekes for this)


I just dont understand why they would say it.

maybe because of what che said? for internal consumtion?


or maybe to what? spook their allies?

or can it be beacuse the whole world knows, hell let's get it out in the open and in law

	20-12-2002 00:41									#35
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Why is anyone really surprised.....?

	20-12-2002 01:06									#36
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I doubt this is real. What kind of idiot would tell a reporter about a "secret" directive of any sort?

	20-12-2002 01:46									#37
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Nah, this is probably very real. 'Secrets' get leaked out to the press daily: hell, the press would run out of stories is everything 'secret' actualy stayed so. It is a tired and true strategy of opponents of something: if you work for some agency, and you see something ebing planned you think is dumb, leak it to the media, which then reports it, and you get to see the reaction to it.

The main problem with US propganda is that I don't think we know how to do it. For propaganda to work, you need to have some clue as to how the othjer side thinks (just like in advertising), but propaganda has to be far more sublte than that, cause if people know its propaganda they think its wrong. Take yesterdays program on Mohammed on PBS: look at the groups fundinng it: several muslim groups got together to fund a program that gave a very postive view of Mohammed, free of any disgreements or modern studies into the Koran, but did it in such as way as to give it legitimacy. Now, The NY POst (terrible piece of crap newspaper) did call it propaganda, which I think is somewhat true (though turn around is fair play, I guess) but that is well doen propaganda. Now take radio sawa in the ME, a US run radio station. It has become extremely popular cuse it runs th most popular US pop songs out there. It also has pro-US news programs, but those fail. Why? cause selling polcies is much harder than selling bran image. Those muslim groups were trying to sell Islam brand image (and did it well), the US doesn't really have to seel a US brand image (most people know and like the US's ibrand image) but US policy, which is terribly difficult.

	20-12-2002 02:27									#38
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GePap, I think you sadly underestimate the American propaganda ability. Turn on your TV, listen to the readio, drive down the interstate, open a magazine or newspaper, propaganda is bombarding you constantly. We call it advertising. And it works, very well.

That said, the people in charge of selling America's image aborad don't know their audience, so their messages have become the laughing stock of the Muslim world. They think people don't understand us, and that's why they hate us. They don't seem to get that it's what we're doing to them that makes them hate us, and so telling them how wonderful life is for Muslims here in the US just won't cut the mustard. American bombs falling on Palestinian and Iraqi children weigh more heavily in the mind of the average Arab than the fact that Muslims have freedom of worship and have very good lives here.

	20-12-2002 03:02									#39
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The best propaganda currently is secret, since we have been conditioned to 'hate' propaganda aftre these last few decades. Advertisements are not secret, they are patently obvious to everyone to see (product placement is the most secret form of advertisements, and still usualy conspicious).

To me the difference is the willingness of the customer. Advertising works on wiling individuals (I am not willing, and thus most brand advertisements fail utterly), now so does propaganda, but the market propaganda is trying to reach is not the wiling market, but the unwilling one. This makes it afr more difficult. Just look at all the anti-drugs, anti-smoking adds: they are the most common form of propaganda we see (interms oif trying to seel policy, not brand) and they are not particularly effective, now are they? THe NYPD keeps advertising for peope to join, but I doubt it has increased its applicant pool.