20-12-2002 02:11									#31
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thanks for the info boshko


well at least in the US I would hope (actually i'd venture far enough as to say I KNOW) that there is more meritocracy than in greece.

despite those rigid requirements the most qualified person might still not make it. another less qualified could get the job if his dad was a diplomat or if he has some connections.

the curse of greece-lack of meritocracy

thats actually the reason why i havent bothered to take the exam for the foreign ministry myself yet (i dont want to bust my ass studying if some stupid clown who has an uncle working there could get my place anyway).

	20-12-2002 02:13									#32
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good luck with the rest of the exams BTW

	20-12-2002 02:19									#33
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Paitkis:

The exam is for people who whish to join the Foreign service, which basicaly means the staff at embassies around the world: It does not get you a job in any other part of the state department, which is the US equivalent of the Foreign Ministry.

As for academic requirements: joining the staff and becoming a higly paid or important member are too different things. Individuals with higher degrees do get paid more, and my guess is they climb higher in the system than those without degrees.

Now about languages: one would think that the US would really want ambassadors that sopke the language, yet a signifcant amount of American ambassadors in Latin America don't know spanish: spanish for God's sake, the most common second language of the land!

	20-12-2002 02:28									#34
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GePap, yes but i mean they give you a fair shot.


everybody "fights" equally and the one who gets in, gets in.


here it is more like a setup game

and it has infected even EU exams for the european commission.

the writen exams are totally "trick"-proof (there is full transparency, full meritocracy) but when you get to the oral examinations (which are done by greeks) again the "conections" get in and they get the one who is a newphew of an uncle, of an uncle of an uncle.... etc


A fair shot godammit

my ****ing country is eating its own children pushing them away from it


anyway sometimes miracles do happen

but the diplomatic corps (which I want to give the exams for) is almost totally saturated by sons of diplomats (and they got there just because of daddy). i mean they have the requirements (like I do and others)but once they take part in the exams, they're in - the others get screwed in the oral exams (done by friends of their daddy diplomats)


their have been mesures to rectify this at least in the broader public sector but it still a very serious problem.

Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 20-12-2002 at 02:34

	20-12-2002 16:46									#35
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hmmmmm, I guess the US is too big for a nepotism network to take hold like that...

	20-12-2002 16:52									#36
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Consider yourselves very lucky.

You have no idea how much of a burden this puts to a country.

It doesn't permit the best people to go to the best jobs.

The lack of meritocracy is making this country produce a tenth of what it is able to.

I could go on for hours about how this was created (liberation, clientel relations between voters and political parties, ottoman structural remnants, the lack of the social contract) but what matters is what the bloody hell is being done for this problem to go away.

	20-12-2002 16:57									#37
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Plus it makes the country "bleed" since most of its best people won't hang around here and be screwed over by nephews of uncles of whatever, they go abroad.

	20-12-2002 16:58									#38
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Drake,

Consider going to work for the Feds before getting that PhD. IMO you will have two advantages. Firstly, if you hate working for the Feds you will know it a lot sooner, and without having wasted those years on an education that might have been better spent with another focus. If you do like working of the Feds and then go back to school you will have a much better idea of what sort of educational focus will be most useful to you. A well-timed and aimed Doctoral Thesis on the right subject could be like gold for your career.

	20-12-2002 21:01									#39
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Thanks for the advice, Sikander.

I'm already pretty sure of what area of international relations I want to focus on (East Asian security studies), but I'm not really sure what the best avenue is for obtaining a career in that area. I know I want to be the National Security Advisor some day, but the road between here and there is kinda hazy...

Luckily, I still have some time to figure this all out, as I should be going to Japan for a couple years to work on my Japanese.

	20-12-2002 22:43									#40
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Better do some military service if you want that job...

	20-12-2002 23:07									#41
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quote: Better do some military service if you want that job...

They won't take me. I have exercise-induced asthma, which effectively disqualifies me from any real military service, ie: anything other than the Navy.

	21-12-2002 01:53									#42
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hi ,

if you are ever in europe , drop a line , then we can go for a drink and walk out for free , .....

all you have to do is show your state dept ID and say "diplomatic immunity" , ......

have a nice diplo day

	21-12-2002 04:13									#43
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quote: Consider yourselves very lucky. You have no idea how much of a burden this puts to a country. It doesn't permit the best people to go to the best jobs. The lack of meritocracy is making this country produce a tenth of what it is able to. I could go on for hours about how this was created (liberation, clientel relations between voters and political parties, ottoman structural remnants, the lack of the social contract) but what matters is what the bloody hell is being done for this problem to go away.

Paiktina it is same here. We have the so called "brain drain" because people emigrate somwhere where their abilities will be appreciated more then their contacts

Just to add, most of these practices are in the gray area, so not really illegal, like what you said with oral exams where they ripp you off since there are no rules.

But even when they do stuff to push their person which is clearly illegal, people just loose the will to fight it on the courts because of crappy judicial system which is everything but independant and can be stalled forever

that is why I never want to be state employee



Sorry for the little threadjack Boshko! Nice to hear you made it, good luck in your career