17-02-2003 23:39									#301
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Very nice Jim.

And yes, that is the Guards Armoured Division symbol. You making a Market-Garden scenario?

	17-02-2003 23:59									#302
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thanks for your help gareth. yes, this should become a market garden scenario. i hope very soon.

do you have a daimler mkII armored car? this would really help me out

	18-02-2003 20:11									#303
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just to state that the compilation of german ww2 units is not complete .....

a Jagdpanzer IV I made for my Market Garden Scenario

Attachment: jagdpanzer iv.gif
This has been downloaded 361 time(s).

	22-02-2003 03:26									#304
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I saw that "band of brothers" mini-series recently...

	22-02-2003 19:56									#305
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I wasn't aware they made a jagd version of the panzer IV... interesting.

	22-02-2003 20:55									#306
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Not too many of them. Probably not enough of an improvement over the SGIII, and not enough of a savings over the PzKwIV to convert the assembly lines.

That JagdPanther of yours in Bulge was also made in tiny numbers. Maybe someone else has more exact info (you can tell that Case has gone walkabout in Europe at present), but I remember reading they only made 500 or less of the JPV. I'll bet a high percentage of them fought in the Ardennes.

	22-02-2003 21:02									#307
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Over 1000 Jagdpanzers IV were manufactured before the end of the war. There were three varients. The Stug III was intended to be an infantry support vehicle. The Jagdpanzer IV was a dedicated tank destroyer. Production began in 1944.

Attachment: hk_jpz4-70.jpg
This has been downloaded 293 time(s).

Last edited by Caspian on 22-02-2003 at 21:16

	22-02-2003 21:09									#308
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Here is a better picture that I found on the net.

Attachment: jagd4_3.jpg
This has been downloaded 289 time(s).

	22-02-2003 22:13									#309
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Good use of sloped armor on that beast. Were the variants defined by the armament (e.g. PzKw IV 75, Panther 75, and 88)? Designwise, you're right Caspian, but I'll bet more than one German AT battalion was equipped with SGIII's. Wouldn't surprise me if the JPzIV's and JPthr V's were only found in elite units.

OT a little, how long did the Swedes use the S-tank, and did they sell any to anyone else?

	22-02-2003 22:49									#310
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The First two varients consisted of a modified Panzer IV chasis fitted with a very thick armoured superstructure. The difference between these two models was the calibre of their guns. The last varient was the armoured superstructure being fitted onto a virtually unmodified PZ IV chasis.

I don't know the designation of the first varient but the second was called the Panzer IV/70(V) and the third Panzer IV/70(A). The 70 alludes to the calibre of the gun. The first varient gun was 48 Calibres long.

All three versions were issued to Tank formations to replace other panzer types that were in short supply

I think the Swedes are still using the S-Tank, although substantially upgraded. I couldn't say if it was exported or not

	22-02-2003 23:02									#311
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382 Jagdpathers were made in total.

-FMK.

	22-02-2003 23:06									#312
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Conserning the S-Tank, As I recall we don't have our own tank models anymore but rather we lease tanks from Germany
However I might well have gotten that wrong and I am definatly no expert on modern Swedish millitary equipment.

	22-02-2003 23:23									#313
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We were talking about Jagdpanzer IVs, not Jagdpanthers FMK

[Edit] oops, just noticed that we were talking about Jagdpanthers further up the page. Sorry about that.

Last edited by Caspian on 22-02-2003 at 23:33

	22-02-2003 23:30									#314
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The Swedes have imported the latest version of the German Leopard 2. The Swedish version is designated the Strv 122 and for the Swiss Pz 87. However I think sweden still uses afew modified vehicles from its own domestic defense industry e.g the S-Tank and Ikv-91 Tank Destroyer.

LOL, sorry for bein such a square

	22-02-2003 23:36									#315
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quote: Originally posted by Henrik modern Swedish millitary equipment.

	22-02-2003 23:42									#316
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I would laugh along with you there FMK if I didn't know that if it wasn't for the UK, the Scottish idea of offensive weaponry would still be lifting up our kilts and showing our bottoms to the enemy

	22-02-2003 23:45									#317
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The thought did cross my mind to add a winking smiley inside paranteses when I wrote that
However laugh all you want, back before we started cutting down on our millitary we had the fourth biggest airforce in the world

	22-02-2003 23:53									#318
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more detailed information about the Jagdpanzer IV:
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/html/germany/jagd.html;

the Jagdpanzer IV had the same problems like most of the allied tank destroyers: a weak front and a ... hm, let´s say not optimal chassis.

try www.wwiivehicles.com/index.html for a great deal of information on ww2 armor.

	23-02-2003 21:22									#319
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quote: Originally posted by Boco Good use of sloped armor on that beast. Were the variants defined by the armament (e.g. PzKw IV 75, Panther 75, and 88)? Designwise, you're right Caspian, but I'll bet more than one German AT battalion was equipped with SGIII's. Wouldn't surprise me if the JPzIV's and JPthr V's were only found in elite units.

late war German Panzer divisions usually had a Panzerjager battalian equiped either with StuG III/IVs or Jagdpanzer IVs - they weren't issued specifically to elite units. They were used as assault guns or tank killers, as were late StuGs. Jagdpanthers, on the other hand, were issued only to a handful of independent Jagdpanzer battalions.

There were 2 main variants: Jagdpanzer IV/48 and IV/70; the former was equiped with the same 75mm/L48 gun as later StuGs and Panzer IVHs, while the latter had the Panther 75mm/L70 gun. The Jagdpanther packed a 88mm/L71 gun - the same one as used in the Konigstiger. The mother of all tank killers was the Jagdtiger, which used a 128mm L/55 gun.

My tank geekiness knows no bounds

	23-02-2003 21:34									#320
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quote: Originally posted by jim panse more detailed information about the Jagdpanzer IV: http://www.wwiivehicles.com/html/germany/jagd.html; the Jagdpanzer IV had the same problems like most of the allied tank destroyers: a weak front and a ... hm, let´s say not optimal chassis.

Not really. US tank destroyers were completely different - they used light armour and rotating turrets and relied on mobility to survive. German (and Russian) tank killers used restricted movement gun mounts and generally very heavy frontal armour. Their only weakness was an inability to shoot 360° at targets.

The Jagdpanzer IV had 80mm frontal armour compared to the 12mm of the M18 or the 37mm of the M10.

	23-02-2003 22:04									#321
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quote: German (and Russian) tank killers used restricted movement gun mounts and generally very heavy frontal armour.

FL, I wish more designers would pay attention to this difference. Defensively, German TD's were formidable. DV is using SGIII's in a neat way: they have the 'ignore city walls' flag. Using this flag to reflect their training in infantry support encourages the player to use them together with infantry to assault cities.

Btw Tank Geek, what info do you have on relative speeds of JTigers, JPanthers compared to tanks using the same chassis?

	23-02-2003 23:33									#322
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Well the StuG is a tank killer, its' restricted main gun traverse makes it ideal (in the tactical role) for defensive fighting. The StuH (Haubitze or Howitzer) is the infantry support variant, intended to use its gun on 'soft targets'. I would prefer to see the latter used as an ign. city walls attack type unit... almost in the SP arty role (Wespe/ Hummel).

To me, the best 'alternative' use of the Stug might be to have it have poor attack, but heavy defense, such that it takes up the defensive positions to protect your main forces against AI counterattack. Though, shouldn't the human controller be able to use a tank hunter to hunt enemy tanks? It'd need a high attack there though....hmmm

-FMK.

	24-02-2003 00:10									#323
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Upon further research, it seems they didnt specialize the StuH unitll '42. Untill then, I suppose the StuG can be used in a dual role. This way, in earlier scenaios it can be decided by the designer how it will work.

If your scenario is past 1942, and you intend to have an assault gun Ign City Walls, you might include the SturmHaubitze, Wespe, Hummel etc.

I still like the StuG (especially after '42) in the low attack, high def/hp role.

-FMK.

now anyone got a unit for a StuGIII A?

	24-02-2003 00:43									#324
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quote: Originally posted by Boco Btw Tank Geek, what info do you have on relative speeds of JTigers, JPanthers compared to tanks using the same chassis?

My book of tank geek facts tells me the following:

Tiger VIE: 38 km/h
Elephant/Elefant: 30 km/h

Tiger II: 35 km/h
Jagdtiger: 38 km/h

Panther VG: 46 km/h
Jagdpanther: 46 km/h

These are all max road speeds. A Jagdtiger (or for that matter a Konigstiger) moved at a snail's pace on rough ground

	24-02-2003 06:31									#325
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My book says:

Same as fairline for Tiger VIE
20 km/h for the elefant
38 km/h for the Tiger II
36.7 km/h for the Jagdtiger
44.8 km/h for the Panther G
Same as Panther G for Jagdpanther

If you want the road range I can give that as well... along with max armor, dimensions, crew, and horsepower....

	25-02-2003 04:19									#326
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quote: Originally posted by Field Marshal Klesh now anyone got a unit for a StuGIII A?

-FMK.

[gfx removed]

	25-02-2003 17:34									#327
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Very nice, FMK I see you got round the problem of the black uniformed tank commander

quote: If you want the road range I can give that as well... along with max armor, dimensions, crew, and horsepower....

Pah! my book tells you how many cup holders each tank had.

	25-02-2003 19:23									#328
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Can someone make a Jagdpanzer VI Jagdtiger by any chance? There has been one already on this thread, but it isn't really in Nemo format.

Thanks,
Pap

	25-02-2003 19:59									#329
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can your book also tell you how many hammers for engine failures soviet tanks had?

	25-02-2003 22:03									#330
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No but it does talk about the problems of the ball bearings in the KV-2