20-12-2002 07:24									#1
	civ 3 potential. How to improve Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I've tried civ 3, and I absolutely love the idea behind the game.

The only thing I hate about it is how easily other nations go to war. Is there any way to change this?

I want war to be rare. When there are atleast 3 peace treaties or wars declared every turn it seems almost stupid.

5000 years and its constant war...

I would love to change the game to make it so all the powers are in their set territories. We can trade, enhance our civilizations, and maybe just one time all hell broke lose.

I was watching the move, The Sum of All Fears. I want tension like that in this game. We threaten you with war! Finger on the trigger, constantly questioning whether to launch an attack. Not Persia declares war on you, england declares war on you, persia declares peace, persia declares war. Constantly through the whole game as if this was not so much a political game but a war game.

I just believe that it would be so much better if war had more consequences, and it seemed like something you'd want to avoid. Then when war actually broke out it would have more meaning. Something catastrophic but exciting.

I would also love it if the dam ai would stop sending armies across my border when were allies. Who in the real world does that? Would an army of another country be able to wander into the united states at its own free will, and would canada declare war on the states? No! That's another beef I have with the game. Everyone declares war on everybody, even when your 100 times bigger and stronger. Where's the logic in that?

How can I mod the game to fix this? Is it possible?

	20-12-2002 07:49									#2
	Re: civ 3 potential. How to improve Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by aeroheli I've tried civ 3, and I absolutely love the idea behind the game. The only thing I hate about it is how easily other nations go to war. Is there any way to change this? I want war to be rare. When there are atleast 3 peace treaties or wars declared every turn it seems almost stupid. 5000 years and its constant war... I would love to change the game to make it so all the powers are in their set territories. We can trade, enhance our civilizations, and maybe just one time all hell broke lose. I was watching the move, The Sum of All Fears. I want tension like that in this game. We threaten you with war! Finger on the trigger, constantly questioning whether to launch an attack. Not Persia declares war on you, england declares war on you, persia declares peace, persia declares war. Constantly through the whole game as if this was not so much a political game but a war game. I just believe that it would be so much better if war had more consequences, and it seemed like something you'd want to avoid. Then when war actually broke out it would have more meaning. Something catastrophic but exciting. I would also love it if the dam ai would stop sending armies across my border when were allies. Who in the real world does that? Would an army of another country be able to wander into the united states at its own free will, and would canada declare war on the states? No! That's another beef I have with the game. Everyone declares war on everybody, even when your 100 times bigger and stronger. Where's the logic in that? How can I mod the game to fix this? Is it possible?

Literaly yes

Accualy no

	20-12-2002 08:00									#3
	Re: civ 3 potential. How to improve Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by aeroheli I've tried civ 3, and I absolutely love the idea behind the game. The only thing I hate about it is how easily other nations go to war. Is there any way to change this? I want war to be rare. When there are atleast 3 peace treaties or wars declared every turn it seems almost stupid. 5000 years and its constant war... I would love to change the game to make it so all the powers are in their set territories. We can trade, enhance our civilizations, and maybe just one time all hell broke lose. I was watching the move, The Sum of All Fears. I want tension like that in this game. We threaten you with war! Finger on the trigger, constantly questioning whether to launch an attack. Not Persia declares war on you, england declares war on you, persia declares peace, persia declares war. Constantly through the whole game as if this was not so much a political game but a war game. I just believe that it would be so much better if war had more consequences, and it seemed like something you'd want to avoid. Then when war actually broke out it would have more meaning. Something catastrophic but exciting. I would also love it if the dam ai would stop sending armies across my border when were allies. Who in the real world does that? Would an army of another country be able to wander into the united states at its own free will, and would canada declare war on the states? No! That's another beef I have with the game. Everyone declares war on everybody, even when your 100 times bigger and stronger. Where's the logic in that? How can I mod the game to fix this? Is it possible?

France, India and Iraqious are the three that more peaceful. Nations like Russia and Germany are very aggressive. Of course, if you want to use the editor, goto the Civ tab and reduce the aggressiveness for each civ.

	20-12-2002 08:02									#4
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I've played many games where there were no wars for the entire first half of the game. I think the tendency for the AI to go to war increases with how belligerent the player is. If you declare war early on in the game, it will make it more violent. I've found myself having to declare wars without provocation just to get out of the tedium of having no wars.

Likewise, I've noticed the AI isn't that stupid about declaring war against stronger opponents, especially after said opponent has kicked their butt once or twice. In my current game, France had gotten snotty with me a while ago, and I thrashed them pretty good. Now they always skirt my territory instead of passing through. That taught 'em!

Keep in mind, also, that wars weren't necessarily catastrophic in olden days. There wasn't the kind of massive destruction that made wars disasterous until the 20th century, really.

	20-12-2002 08:11									#5
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The one thing I noticed is that if a civ has resources and lebensraum they usually won't go to war unless it's part of a diplomatic deal (they all have their price).

	20-12-2002 09:28									#6
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I tottaly agree with you 'aeroheli'. I watched sum of all fears and thought the exact same thing about civ as you did. I would like it if instead of always going to war there could be somwhat of a coldwar between nations, I think that would be cool .

	20-12-2002 10:46									#7
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There are consequence to war in the game. At higher setting you will have a very hard time of being at war for hundreds or thousands of years. The war weariness will eat you up unless you are in Monarchy or despot. I would not want to be in those for very long. I left out commie as it comes so late in the game. You will need a lot of luxs or entertainers to keep the peace at say Republic on emperor or watch the cities come apart.
No matter what you do to combat the WW, it cost you, so you do have consequences.
It is best to not try to think of things in the game in terms of real life, it was not meant to be a real world representation. Concessions had to be made for game play and enjoyment. Weither they did the best job of mixing them is for the individual to determine.

	20-12-2002 11:40									#8
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That only happens after the concept of total war and mutual assured destruction, which are 20th century concepts. The time Europe has been at peace since WW2 is the longest time of peace in its history. That said, you can muck around with the editor and tailor it to your tastes by reducing aggression.

Hank

quote: Originally posted by xXx I tottaly agree with you 'aeroheli'. I watched sum of all fears and thought the exact same thing about civ as you did. I would like it if instead of always going to war there could be somwhat of a coldwar between nations, I think that would be cool .

	21-12-2002 04:37									#9
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Hank, have you ever heard of someone named Slobodan Milosevic?


I can keep all AIs at peace with eachother as well as with me. All you need is to call em up at least twice every five turns and trade world maps. Give AIs the resources they need, even if they can't pay much. They'll never go to war.

	21-12-2002 05:39									#10
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Stopping wars (or limiting them) is the function of diplomacy. You should always have an embassy with all of the civ's and a regular contact for trading is always helpful in international relations. Sometimes you got to fight though, enter into a few Mpps with civ's that border you enemy (or intended enemy). As soon as you are attacked, you will have a coalition against your rival. This will reduce WW, tie up a portion of his forces, and increase relations with the other civs. One point on ROP's though, only sign them when you actually need it, and never, ever with Persia or Germany.

	22-12-2002 22:44									#11
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I find that I'm usually the one who has to get the first war going.

	23-12-2002 20:00									#12
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hi ,

factory recall , improve the thing and then launch it , with some extra's naturally , .....

ones completely fixed they could even ask 49.95 for it , .....

have a nice day

	27-12-2002 12:30									#13
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war generally occurs because of me. I agree with you bobboOO8.

	29-12-2002 02:19									#14
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The year is 500 A.D., but most countries are industrializing, and there has only been one "war". It was between the Vikings (in Scandinavia) and Babylon (Portugal), on a huge map. Each side doesn't own any of the others' cities and they are at least 10 turns away from each other if traveling by galleys. I never saw any fighting or troop movements. The only way I could know is when I go to deal with one of them, my advisor says that they've betrayed our friends the vikings/babylonians

	29-12-2002 03:09									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior Hank, have you ever heard of someone named Slobodan Milosevic?

Nah, I think Hank was referring to a country-country war. Yugoslavia broke up and that resulted in the ethnic fighting. There hasn't been two countries at war with one another in Europe since 1945.

But back to the subject...

No one brought up the fact that the human player HAS TO wage war in order to generate GLs. No GLs means no armies and no quick built wonders.

You don't wage war == you quickly become obsolete.

	29-12-2002 03:42									#16
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"There hasn't been two countries at war with one another in Europe since 1945."

Unless you count Chechnya, but technically those aren't too countries.

Or unless you count that time the French hotel wouldn't let a German couple rent a room, but that's not really a war, just a story my German teacher told me.

	29-12-2002 05:04									#17
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Constant wars always happened in human history! If you don't want wars follow my strategy

I played on a pangea map as the germans with greek, japanese and romans on the other side of the continent and the egyptians in the middle. Romans are my best friends so I CAN'T let them down when egypt start to invade them and seize Rome- my cavarly reaches Thebes and burn all the cities all the way through ; all of sudden the romans, greek and japanese HATE me! They're furious at me even though they all have mutual protection pacts- could it be all those civilians slaughtered? Hmm But I helped them so much during the war! 50 gold per turn, oil, incense, gems, iron, coal and maps for FREE during 60 turns of war. You see? There's no way you can tell the AI not to have war. Just let them become weak then burn!

	29-12-2002 21:40									#18
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quote: Originally posted by bobbo008 "There hasn't been two countries at war with one another in Europe since 1945." Unless you count Chechnya, but technically those aren't too countries. Or unless you count that time the French hotel wouldn't let a German couple rent a room, but that's not really a war, just a story my German teacher told me.

hi ,



huh , what about spain and france with the basks , what about north ireland , what about the former yugoslavia , etc , ......

or are those countries not in europe

or has there not been a war after wwII

what about the Greek civil war or is Greece not in europe

plenty of wars and plenty of them in europe (!)

have a nice day

	30-12-2002 03:59									#19
	Re: civ 3 potential. How to improve Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by aeroheli I want war to be rare. . . .

I once calculated how much time was spent in a state of war in the game. The answer (for GOTM5) was 22% of the time. That means that 78% of the time was at peace, including Pax Americana.


Manifest Destiny
http://www.zachriel.com/gotm5/

quote: . . . . I would love to change the game to make it so all the powers are in their set territories. We can trade, enhance our civilizations, . . . .

Trade can be so much more satisfying after a good war.

	30-12-2002 05:33									#20
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"huh , what about spain and france with the basks , what about north ireland , what about the former yugoslavia , etc , ......
or are those countries not in europe
or has there not been a war after wwII
what about the Greek civil war or is Greece not in europe
plenty of wars and plenty of them in europe (!)
have a nice day"

For future reference, it's "basque", not "bask".
And Greece is in Europe, physically and politically.
I wasn't the one saying there were no wars, I was just giving examples why there are still tensions. Most ethnic groups have tensions with other ethnic groups, unfortunately. A good example was when my German teacher was asked by a student why the French hated the Germans. She replied, "Everybody hates the Germans".

	30-12-2002 08:55									#21
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quote: Originally posted by bobbo008 "huh , what about spain and france with the basks , what about north ireland , what about the former yugoslavia , etc , ...... or are those countries not in europe or has there not been a war after wwII what about the Greek civil war or is Greece not in europe plenty of wars and plenty of them in europe (!) have a nice day" For future reference, it's "basque", not "bask". And Greece is in Europe, physically and politically. I wasn't the one saying there were no wars, I was just giving examples why there are still tensions. Most ethnic groups have tensions with other ethnic groups, unfortunately. A good example was when my German teacher was asked by a student why the French hated the Germans. She replied, "Everybody hates the Germans".

hi ,

for future reference , leave the "[/Quote] , ........

the word "basks" is okayed by the basks themselfs , from the site , .....

have a nice day

	06-01-2003 21:09									#22
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I think the point being made that there have not been any wars in the civ3 sense, of one "civ" declaring war and directly attacking another, in Europe, since 1945.

All the conflicts have been internal, within the boundaries established in 1945.

civ3 is somewhat lacking in that it doesn't model these sort of conflicts such as

- Ireland
- Cyprus
- Euzkadi (Basque country)
- Corsica
- former Yugoslavia
- Chechnya
- disputes between former USSR member nations
etc

The major powers now tend to fight wars by proxy, outside Europe: eg in Afghanistan, Angola, Vietnam, Korea.

The third world is thus used by all the civs as a source of cheap raw materials, food and manufactured goods and a market for arms, without going to the bother of having an actual empire.

	06-01-2003 21:38									#23
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quote: Originally posted by macaskil civ3 is somewhat lacking in that it doesn't model these sort of conflicts such as - Ireland - Cyprus - Euzkadi (Basque country) - Corsica - former Yugoslavia - Chechnya - disputes between former USSR member nations etc

Sort of. It's modelled with Culture flipping.

Will Northern Ireland flip to the Republic of Ireland, or will it stay in the UK? Will Chechnya flip to the "Islamic Civ", or will it stay in Russia. Will Bosnia join Greater Europe, or will it remain in Yugoslavia?

	07-01-2003 03:06									#24
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Well, if I'm thinking right, the world has been at war at some place or another through all history. The United States, for example, has been at war almost all the time since it's existance; war of independence, war against Spain, war against Mexico, war against itself, war against the indians, war against Cuba, "cold" war against Soviet Union, war against German Empire, war against Third Reich, war against North Korea, war against Vietkong, war against Iraq, war against Milosevic war against Taliban, "guerilla" wars against almost every South American country.... it's a never ending story.

Apart from that, the U.S. has troops stationed in practically every allied country across the world.

Therefore I wouldn't call the never ending wars in Civ or foreign troops moving through allied countries unrealistic.

	08-01-2003 21:06									#25
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hi ,

, it would be intresting to send a type of unit in ones country to create some havoc , ......

there are several scenario's in CIV II where a country splits in two , combined with a unit we could be onto something here , ........



what is also needed is unit trading , with and without the technology of that unit , ....

have a nice day

	09-01-2003 02:09									#26
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Civ should have a "casus belli" concept like Europa Universalis. Illegal trespassing, certain spy actions and threats would give you a casus belli for a couple of turns. Declaring a war without a casus belli would cause war weariness if you are under a peace government, and damage your reputation.

	09-01-2003 17:13									#27
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There have been something like 20 peacefull years in human history.

	10-01-2003 01:34									#28
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hi ,

we should have the option again to declare war if some-one sabotages our production , we should need an agent then or so , but this has to be worked on , ....

have a nice day

	10-01-2003 05:39									#29
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"for future reference , leave the "[/Quote] , ........

sorry, too much work...

"the word "basks" is okayed by the basks themselfs , from the site , ..... "

then we shouldn't be calling the Germans "Germans", then, since they don't call themselves that. I was thinking of just keeping it all "one" language, but your way is equally (if not more) justified.

"Will Northern Ireland flip to the Republic of Ireland, or will it stay in the UK? Will Chechnya flip to the "Islamic Civ", or will it stay in Russia. Will Bosnia join Greater Europe, or will it remain in Yugoslavia?"

Chechnya is more towards independance, unless i'm mistaken... that's not really "internal" though, for example, in Northern Ireland, they people in the area itself aren't fighting amongst themselves.

"There have been something like 20 peacefull years in human history."

not "big" wars, but things like Afghanistan (Soviet and U.S. presense), and other "covert" things.