20-12-2002 08:09									#1
	What second languages do native english speakers have to learn in school? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

That, and:

Do native english speakers find it useful/necessary to learn a second language or not?
Do you think that it should be mandatory (to learn a second language) or not?


What second language would you find useful according to your geographical situation?
For example : I suppose americans would find spanish quite useful, and britons would find german or french useful.



Discuss.

	20-12-2002 08:12									#2
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I was forced to take French as a wee lad when I lived in Canada, and I took 2 years of Spanish when I lived in California.

It's no longer mandatory to learn French in Alberta, though (thank God ).

No second language is useful where I live. Only like 0.5% of the population is natively French. By far the next most popular languages other than English are some Chinese dialects...

I'm of the opinion that it's useless for me to learn a second language. I didn't find it challenging, but they started teaching me French at a very young age...

	20-12-2002 08:15									#3
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I had to choose between Latin, French, Spanish, and Chinese. I chose Latin, because the Latin teacher didn't make us do any work and gave us all As.

	20-12-2002 08:17									#4
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I had to choose between Spanish and French. I took French and at one point was proficient enough to pick up women in Spain

In the U.S., I suppose that Spanish would be the most useful, followed by French and whatever is predominant where you live. In D.C., it would probably be good to speak some form of Somali or Etheopian on top of Spanish...

	20-12-2002 08:18									#5
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I had a choice between Latin, Spanish, and French. I choose Latin because it might help with some vocabulary, but mainly because I liked Roman history. A second language really isn't that useful. The Spanish taught in my school isn't the same spanish that many people in my area speak.

	20-12-2002 08:21									#6
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A second language is manditory in BC, but it doesn't have to be French. Nevertheless, French remains the most popular optional language. Total French immersion schools have a pretty good following.

French is not a total waste of time. It gives you more options for employment, particularly with the Federal Gov't. Also there have been a few times when I found it handy to have some basic communication skills especially when I am travelling.

	20-12-2002 08:23									#7
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I have major problems working for the federal government in general, so that's cool by me.

	20-12-2002 08:26									#8
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Asher, I came close once. Did some interviews and it looked like they wanted me. Luckily a private industry job came by just in time.

	20-12-2002 08:28									#9
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I was required to take either French or Spanish throughout middle school and high school. I chose French, and got decent at it. In college I chose to just take a proficiency test and then only had to do 1 semester of intermediate French (as opposed to the normal 3-semester language requirement) and get it done with. However, I now wish I had instead taken 3 semesters of German, as it would have helped me tremendously with singing lieder.

I think having a second language is cool.

	20-12-2002 08:37									#10
	Re: What second languages do native english speakers have to learn in school? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Plan Austral Do native english speakers find it useful/necessary to learn a second language or not?

I'm not a native English speaker, but generally I've found that I improved my Dutch through other languages.

On the mandatory/optional-issue, at my middle school, Dutch was compulsory for six years, English for four years, French for four years, German for three years, Latin for four years, and Ancient Greek for three years.
Of the last five, you had to do at least two languages (one classic and one modern language) for an additional two years (I picked Latin and English).

	20-12-2002 08:39									#11
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quote: Originally posted by RedFred A second language is manditory in BC, but it doesn't have to be French. Nevertheless, French remains the most popular optional language. Total French immersion schools have a pretty good following. French is not a total waste of time. It gives you more options for employment, particularly with the Federal Gov't. Also there have been a few times when I found it handy to have some basic communication skills especially when I am travelling.

What is a total french immersion school?
Is it bilingual with english and french, or only french?


I suppose it must be something particularly canadian.

	20-12-2002 08:41									#12
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French immersion is surprisingly common even where I live in Calgary. Lots of parents believe being fluently bilingual is a vital skill for their children and helps them learn better in general.

In the French Immersion schools here, all courses except English are taught in French.

	20-12-2002 08:48									#13
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Spanish / German

	20-12-2002 08:49									#14
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I had to choose between French, Spanish, and German. At first I took French because the Spanish teacher was a moron. I didn't like French, so after a year I took German. I hated German (why the hell do you need three genders for nouns???), so after a semester I went back to French and finished up another year as a sophomore in high school. My university required two years of foreign language to graduate (damned liberal arts colleges), so after going four or five years without taking any foreign language I suddenly had to pass a semester of French in order to graduate. I made it through on charm alone.

I'd like to be able to speak Spanish, but I'm not enough of a glutton for punishment to actually try to learn. Not that I have much occasion to speak Spanish, but it would be nice to know in case I ever decided to go south of the border for whatever reason.

Mandatory? Nah, I hate that word. My first reaction to everything "mandatory" is to try to figure out how to avoid it.

	20-12-2002 08:50									#15
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Like many here, the choices in high school (nothing even offered before 9th grade!!), was Spanish, French and Latin. We only had 2 years mandatory. I took 2 years French, 1 Latin.

Realistically speaking, it is not that important to have a second language--in the US at least. That said, you could use Spanish and Arabic in DC. Also, knowing Spanish might help you get a good job with a multinational. Online, it would be great to know any number of different languages.

	20-12-2002 08:51									#16
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I had the choice of spanish or spanish

so I took french

Jon Miller

	20-12-2002 08:59									#17
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I'm not sure if I had to learn a second language or not. I think 1 year is req'd. I'm not sure. I had to do 3 years to get the advanced diploma. I took 3 years of Spanish.

Spanish is a useful language where I live. I could have taken french. But there are no french speakers where I live. That was the only 2 languages they offered in my school.

And knowing 2 language (English,Spanish) is very important where I live. It can give you many more job opportunities in the working level class. Obviously high level jobs ony require English.

Last edited by Dis on 20-12-2002 at 09:06

	20-12-2002 09:01									#18
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and I do feel it should be mandatory.

But not in high school! For some reason they don't even offer foreign language until jr. high school (middle school). These *******s in education have no idea how the human brain develops.

I think mandatory Spanish should be given in elementary school. If I had learned it back then it would have been much easier. Learning it in high school was very difficult for me.

	20-12-2002 09:09									#19
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger I hated German (why the hell do you need three genders for nouns???),

Once you get past the initial shock, though, it's not so bad. And it's mitigated by the fact that German has far fewer exceptions to its grammatical rules than most languages, making it fairly easy to grasp. Plus you get to make up new words by ramming as many old words together as you want. Now that's fun.

	20-12-2002 09:11									#20
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"I think mandatory Spanish should be given in elementary school."

Agreed!

But still, in large swaths of the US, Spanish (or any other language) will not be of ready use...

	20-12-2002 09:11									#21
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One of my friends (who speaks fluent German and was born in Germany and is minoring in German in uni) says the three genders (or 2 genders and 1 lack thereof) is the most annoying thing in the language by far.

It's for that reason he prefers English.

	20-12-2002 09:20									#22
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I went through public school in Canada when French was mandatory. However, because our education system is based provincially, I had the advantage of starting French right from grade 1 in Saskatchewan. I moved to BC in grade 4, and that's when they start with French classes (or did, I don't know if that's still the case). I was way ahead of the rest of my class because of that.

Asher, growing up in Vancouver, I used to think that being able to speak French would be practically useless (although it certainly came in handy in France). I was somewhat surprised when I moved to Toronto to see how much it can help you out here. In my area (finance), there is a huge demand for bilingual people who can do business with Quebec.

	20-12-2002 09:28									#23
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I don't ever plan to move to Ontario either. I'm going to move back to California, where French is more than a bit useless for a software engineer.

	20-12-2002 09:30									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov However, I now wish I had instead taken 3 semesters of German, as it would have helped me tremendously with singing lieder.

I thought that Italian was the most important language for that purpose. Don't they oblige opera singers to learn some Italian?

	20-12-2002 09:31									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I don't ever plan to move to Ontario either. I'm going to move back to California, where French is more than a bit useless for a software engineer.

Can't argue that point. Better brush up on your gibberish, though

	20-12-2002 09:31									#26
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond I thought that Italian was the most important language for that purpose. Don't they oblige opera singers to learn some Italian?

Could you name me some Italian lieder?

	20-12-2002 09:32									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Kontiki Can't argue that point. Better brush up on your gibberish, though

That's what term papers in college are for, no?

	20-12-2002 09:38									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Could you name me some Italian lieder?

Isn't f.e. "O sole mio" a lieder?

	20-12-2002 09:39									#29
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond Isn't f.e. "O sole mio" a lieder?

Not until the Germans march into Napoli.

	20-12-2002 09:45									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Asher One of my friends (who speaks fluent German and was born in Germany and is minoring in German in uni) says the three genders (or 2 genders and 1 lack thereof) is the most annoying thing in the language by far. It's for that reason he prefers English.

isnt "it" a lack of gender? Unless you mean like "Bonito" and "bonita" like in spanish..

I took Spanish as my "fourth" language in school. my second and third aint too fluent.