21-12-2002 06:15									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten I think Hop on Pop would've contrasted better with The Brothers Karamazov, but it still works. Cest la vie.

I don't believe that I've ever read Hop on Pop. Just goes to show how truly limited my literary horizons are...

However, I've just remembered that I read one of those books titled something like H is for Homicide or F is for Flatulence, I can't remember the specific book. So, that book (whatever it was called) takes 5th place on my list by default.

	21-12-2002 06:38									#62
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quote: Originally posted by El Leon I will look up Camille Paglia now, but curious about the comparison.

I am sure she would have approved of your chastisement of the thread for omitting the classics.

	21-12-2002 07:21									#63
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Well, it's very difficult to choose which are the best items, because there are so many excellent ones to choose from. It's also dificult to be inclusive, because there so many great contributions to world literature from languages other than the big three, Spanish, English and Mandarin.

My ten for the moment:

Jonathan Swift: A Modest Proposal

Satire at its best- how to solve the problems of overpopulation in 18th Century Ireland? Easy- encourage them to eat their children....

Jorge Luis Borges: Ficciones/ Labyrinths

One of the great contributors to fantasy fiction, and a bridge between Britain and Argentina, with his love of Anglo-Saxon poetry. 'Funes the Memorious' is one short story I will never forget. His short tales cry out to be filmed- by Guillermo del Toro, preferably.

Sophocles: Antigone

I never get over the tension in this play- the dilemma, the conflict between familial, sacred obligations and duty to the state. In fact, why not all of his Theban trilogy considered as a unified work?

James Joyce: Ulysses

A book as big as the world, and as small a single day in a single city in one country on the westernmost edge of Europe. One of the most compassionate portrayals of fatherhood and Jewish identity ever created by a gentile, and a great celebration of life, and simple pleasures- like eating fried kidneys, and having afternoon sex.

E. Annie Proulx: The Shipping News

Tremendously funny, and melancholy, with beautiful character studies and inventive use of language, both English and Newfie speak. The film cannot lick its bootstraps.

Samuel Beckett: Malone Dies

Humour, pathos and isolation and death. And again, inventive wordplay and a love of the sound and richness of language for its own sake.

Cavafy: Collected Poetry

Spanning the centuries of diasporic Greek culture and history for inspiration, with wry looks at tragedy and heroism, love and lust, his poetry is of, and for, all time.

Geoffrey Chaucer: The Wife of Bath's Tale

One of the not so many writers who can create a character, and endow it with life so it reaches beyond the printed page. Bawdy and full of verve, she transcends stereotyping.

Thomas Nashe: The Unfortunate Traveller and other works

A writer who captures an intimation of mortality in his song in Summer's Last Will and Testament, 'Adieu, farewell earth's bliss'. He epitomizes the burgeoning Elizabethan literary scene.

Robert Henryson: The Testament of Cresseid

One of the greatest writers in English (Lallans Scots) between Chaucer and the Elizabethans. I love his use of imagery, and the way he shows compassion for Cresseid. His poems have a visual style that would be familiar to anyone who has seen John Boorman's Excalibur- I suspect there may be an unacknowledged debt...

	21-12-2002 07:22									#64
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Illiad by Homer
History of the Peloponnesian War by Thucydides.
Anabasis by Xenophon
Gallic Wars by Caesar
The Aneid by Virgil
Hamlet by Shakespeare
Gulliver's Travels by Jonathan Swift
David Copperfied by Charles Dickens
Declaration of Independence by Thomas Jefferson
War and in Peace by Tolstoy
The Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien
For Whom the Bell Tolls by Ernest Hemingway

	21-12-2002 07:32									#65
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quote: Originally posted by MosesPresley Does anyone else here think Kafka was misunderstood? It seems most people find him depressing. I always thought his works were humorous.

Well yeah they were but in a 'laugh to hide the tears' kind of way. He was a nut, which has been well documented, and a lot of his work is kind of autobiographical about his experiences growing up. Humourous yes, but with a very stark and depressing edge to them.

	21-12-2002 08:13									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Ned History of the Peloponnesian War by Thucydides. Gallic Wars by Caesar Declaration of Independence by Thomas Jefferson

Literature? Fiction, in part, but literature in the strictest sense...

	21-12-2002 08:13									#67
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Sort of like Brazil, then.

	21-12-2002 09:35									#68
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deleted.

	21-12-2002 11:19									#69
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Odyssey
Shakespear's Julius Caesar
Marriage of Figaro
Frankenstein
Uncle Tom's Cabin
All Quiet on the Western Front
Johnny Got His Gun
1984
To Kill a Mockingbird
Catch-22

	21-12-2002 11:34									#70
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I'm glad Marquez and Borges came up.

From GGM I'll take One Hundred Years of Solitude even though it's the obvious choice. Honestly I haven't cared for his other stuff. Many generals slowly dying of tuberculosis in stuffy, allegorical rooms. I get it, I get it.

From JLB I'll take the Ficciones collection and the Labyrinth collection provided I can leave behind his poetry, which is dreadful.

I haven't cited drama... sign me up for Stoppard's Rosencranz & Guildenstern are Dead. And if an operatic libretto is literature, sign me up for the (albeit partially, um, "borrowed") libretto of Verdi's Aida.

	21-12-2002 12:43									#71
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Yes, Borges' Ficciones are a good choice in here (and his poetry is really almost unreadable)

	21-12-2002 12:48									#72
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Oscar Wilde - Salomé

	21-12-2002 16:06									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler ... All Quiet on the Western Front ...

Damn, how could I forget about that one?! There it is just between Hermann Hesse's books and Luke Rhineharts 'The Dice man'. Both on my list. I must have been temporarly blinded by something when i glanced through my shelfs before.

	21-12-2002 16:09									#74
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quote: Originally posted by El Leon Literature? Fiction, in part, but literature in the strictest sense...

Compositions may be written with a functional intent, but their language may be so inspiring as to change a culture, I would argue that all of these works are landmarks both functionally and as literature.

	21-12-2002 23:55									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Kepler I'm glad Marquez and Borges came up. From GGM I'll take One Hundred Years of Solitude even though it's the obvious choice. Honestly I haven't cared for his other stuff. Many generals slowly dying of tuberculosis in stuffy, allegorical rooms. I get it, I get it. From JLB I'll take the Ficciones collection and the Labyrinth collection provided I can leave behind his poetry, which is dreadful. I haven't cited drama... sign me up for Stoppard's Rosencranz & Guildenstern are Dead. And if an operatic libretto is literature, sign me up for the (albeit partially, um, "borrowed") libretto of Verdi's Aida.

Maybe it's just me, but the only book of GGM i would re-read is El Otońo del Patriarca, but I agree, it is difficult. Slowly dying generals... Never even begin reading El General en su Laberinto unless you are willing to drop it or are in for one of those "reader discipline" exercises.

In terms of Drama, I agree that the Theban Trilogy of Sophocles has not been surpassed, to my knowledge.
Though my favourite drama wirter is Brecht and once I even did a couple of bit parts in "Galileo".
And contemporary US english, I'd go for David Mamet, even if he is "trendy," for the sheer fact that he is not Newyorkian.
How about Fo? "Can't pay, won't pay!" is a treat.

	21-12-2002 23:56									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Compositions may be written with a functional intent, but their language may be so inspiring as to change a culture, I would argue that all of these works are landmarks both functionally and as literature.

True... But the Gettysburg address seems more weighty than the Declararion of Independence in terms of culture.

	22-12-2002 01:03									#77
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Good to see someone mentioned Cervantes "Don Quichote de la Mancha" . Hilarious and tragic at the same time.
You have to read it to understand why it belongs in the great top10 of literary fiction.

P.S
Every American seems to put George Orwells "1984" somewhere on their list. Is it required (obligatory) on the school bookreading lists there?

	22-12-2002 01:18									#78
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quote: Originally posted by CapTVK Every American seems to put George Orwells "1984" somewhere on their list. Is it required (obligatory) on the school bookreading lists there?

It was on a list for me from which I had to select some of the books to read.

I think 1984 is especially appealing to Americans because it explains how governments can use word games (e.g. the Ministry of Peace; "War is Peace") to play mind games with the citizenry...something our beloved government has been doing since at least World War II (e.g. the Department of Defense, "the light at the end of the tunnel," "the Patriot Act").

	22-12-2002 02:47									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Illiad by Homer History of the Peloponnesian War by Thucydides. Anabasis by Xenophon Gallic Wars by Caesar The Aneid by Virgil Hamlet by Shakespeare Gulliver's Travels by Jonathan Swift David Copperfied by Charles Dickens Declaration of Independence by Thomas Jefferson War and in Peace by Tolstoy The Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien For Whom the Bell Tolls by Ernest Hemingway

We do not agree about politics but I truly like your list of your favourite books!
I also agree with you that literature doesn't have to be fiction; both the Ancients and the Chinese considered History one of the most respectable genres.
My all-time favourite book is 'The Iliad'.

Merry Christmas!

S.Kroeze

	22-12-2002 03:38									#80
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In response to something someone above said, Salinger most definitely still is writing. He became a recluse after Franny and Zooey got such terrible critical reviews, though the book is making something of a comeback these days. By all indications, though, he is still writing and we may see a good deal of work by him posthumously.

As for my list...

1.) The Source by James Michener. My all time favorite book.
2.) Catch-22 by Joseph Heller.
3.) All Quiet on the Western Front by Erich Maria Remarque
4.) The Power and the Glory by Graham Greene. I'm surprised no one has mentioned him, yet. He wrote many powerful books.
5.) A Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens. I fail to see how anyone can call Dickens wholly depressing after reading this or A Christmas Carol.
6.) 1984 by George Orwell
7.) MacBeth by William Shakespeare, though all of the plays of his that I've read are exemplary. This one still tops the list for me.
8.) Lord of the Rings Trilogy by J.R.R. Tolkien. Naturally.
9.) Night/Dawn/Day by Elie Wiesel. If you get a chance to read all three, do. They are very good.
10.) Lord of the Flies by William Golding.

	22-12-2002 03:53									#81
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Some of you people have a strange concept of what constitutes "fiction."

	22-12-2002 05:46									#82
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quote: Originally posted by S. Kroeze We do not agree about politics but I truly like your list of your favourite books! I also agree with you that literature doesn't have to be fiction; both the Ancients and the Chinese considered History one of the most respectable genres. My all-time favourite book is 'The Iliad'. Well, S. Kroeze, maybe this is a start toward understanding each other. Merry Christmas to you as well. Ned Merry Christmas! S.Kroeze

Well, S. Kroeze, maybe this is a start toward understanding each other.

Merry Christmas to you as well.

Ned

Merry Christmas!

	22-12-2002 06:13									#83
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Atlas Shrugged, and The Gulag Archipelligo

they should be added.

	22-12-2002 10:33									#84
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Hamlet- Shakespeare
Lord of the Rings- J.R.R. Tolkein
2001: a Space Odessey- Arthur C. Clarke
1984- George Orwell
War & Peace- Tolstoy
Julius Caesar- Shakespeare
The Odessey- Homer
The Illiad- Homer
Romeo & Juliet- Shakespeare
Contact- Carl Sagan

	23-12-2002 12:25									#85
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1) Thomas "Every Book's A Masterpiece" Bernhard - Gargoyles
2) Joseph Heller - Catch 22
3) Jon Dos Passos - U.S.A.
4) William Burroughs - The Western Lands
5) Philip K. D i c k - A Scanner Darkly
6) Elias Canetti - Auto Da Fe
7) Mikhail Bulgakov - The Master and Margerita
8) Ken Kesey - One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest
9) J.G. Ballard - Concrete Island
10) J.K Huymans - A Rebours (AKA Against The Grain AKA Against Nature)



Edit: Put spaces in Phil's last name

Last edited by stevechafin on 23-12-2002 at 12:33

	23-12-2002 14:17									#86
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My Personal favorites are:

Shakespeare: Othello, MacBeth
Jack London: Call of the Wild, White Fang
Tom Clancy: Cardinal In The Kremlin, Red Storm Rising.
Homer- The Illiad
Charles Dickens: Great Expectations
Orwell- Animal Farm



Are we considering Political documents/ speeches also?

If so.....

The Cross Of Gold by William Jennings Bryan
The Declaration of Independence- Thomas Jefferson et al.
How the Other Half Lives (authors name escapes me at present)

	23-12-2002 15:05									#87
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quote: Originally posted by El Leon I'd go for David Mamet, even if he is "trendy," for the sheer fact that he is not Newyorkian.

Maybe he isn't, but American Buffalo is about as New Yawk as you can get.

	23-12-2002 18:04									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Some of you people have a strange concept of what constitutes "fiction."

Monkspider himself caused this confusion.
The titel of this thread is: Top ten works of literature ever?
In his post he asks:
"What are the top ten works of fiction ever written?"

I suppose you will agree with this snob that fiction and literature are two different concepts.

	23-12-2002 22:06									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Kepler Maybe he isn't, but American Buffalo is about as New Yawk as you can get.

Nope. It's as Chicago as you can get.

quote: I suppose you will agree with this snob that fiction and literature are two different concepts.

Fiction is rather ambiguous. It is currently in use for classifying anything that is not "academic" by booksellers. But is also is used to refer to novels, as opposed to other genres.
Literature, like I posted before, is not the same. It is the "letters" of a language, so I would have to say that literature would have to be written works that are representative of the language, because of their use of it, influence, etc.

Thereby I would say that Orwell is literature (look up 'Orwellian' and see his influence in other writers), whereas my favourite sci-fi novelists are more debatable (Phillip K. D i c K and Douglas Adams), though I would argue that the former is moreso.

	23-12-2002 22:31									#90
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divine comedy by dante
heart of darkness by conrad
paradise lost by john milton
the orestia by aeschylus
1984 by Orwell
lord of the rings by tolkien
"Hamlet" by SHakespeare
Jane Eyre by Emily Bronte
The Scarlet Letter by Hawthorne

honorable mention: Cry, The Beloved Country by alan paton