20-12-2002 16:15									#1
	Does "Our troops approach your cities" ever work? Inflate your Upload Space

You know, whenever you're in a war, one of the diplomacy options is:

"Our troops are approaching your cities. Perhaps you would like to discuss peace terms?"
or
"Our troops approach your cities. Do you wish to discuss peace terms?"
or
"Our troops approach your cities. I urge you to discuss peace terms while there is still time."

I've never seen one of them work, though. I'll attack a civ, take some cities, and try it, but it never works. I've taken 15 cities, leaving a civ with just one left, and it still doesn't work.

So, since Firaxis has patched Civ3 so this option never works, what's the point in leaving it on the diplomacy screen? Now that I think of it, I don't remember having any civ ever contact me asking for peace in the last few patches, either. It's a little ridiculous.

Every time I take a few cities and contact a civ, they'll give me all their tech, all their money, and sometimes even a city. This obviously means they're pretty desperate for peace.

This should be seen as a bug. It makes no sense that you can contact someone and ask them to discuss peace terms, and they say, "No, never!" then in the same exchange you offer to trade them a peace treaty for every single thing they've got and they accept.

Also, they seem to have gone too far in fixing that little bug that used to let you get huge amounts of gold per turn. Now you can almost never get gold per turn out of the AI. If the AI has 500 gold, they'll give you all 500, but they won't give you 1 gold per turn for 20 turns. That's stupid! I assume this is because the AI won't give you more gold per turn than it has surplus per turn, and the AI doesn't usually have much surplus (especially in the first half of the game). That's a nice quick fix to the bug that let you get 999,999 gold per turn, but it's still stupid that the AI would rather give you 500 gold than 1 gold per turn for 20 turns.

I love Civ3, but it seems like when Firaxis patches something, instead of fixing it, they just remove the problem part entirely, making the game more narrow.

	20-12-2002 17:47									#2
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	20-12-2002 19:27									#3
	Re: Does "Our troops approach your cities" ever work? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Dimension Now that I think of it, I don't remember having any civ ever contact me asking for peace in the last few patches, either.

They're always asking peace in my games.

The 3 choices are kinda silly. It's like the AI doesn't want to show how weak it is. But on the next screen it folds anyways. Personally, I just select the choice that works and move on. Who care which button you push, you still end up with the same next screen.

You gpt problem may have to due with your reputation.

	20-12-2002 19:31									#4
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It has never worked for me. I wish it would though. It seems kinda stupid for the A.I to have 1 city left and in order to get peace, i have to say "I seem to have over extended my self..."

	20-12-2002 20:36									#5
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When I trade my excess goods to the AI, I usually prefer getting a large amount upfront, then with a smaller gpt. Even though the option of having a higher steady flow of cash changing hands over 20 turns is very appealing, the AI has this nasty habit of breaking those deals by starting a war a few turns into the deal (especially if you max out the gpt, to bankrupt it). It would be safe to assume that the AI’s behaviour is largely due to the fact that it can assume the human would do the same thing.

Which, by and large, is true. I’ve done it…not lately, but when I first started playing, I’d make these deals where I get tech for a high gpt, then start a war. There is no penalty, aside from rep. With luxuries and resources, it’s a little different…you break the deal, you no longer get the benefits of the deal. With techs, though, it’s different. You break the deal, you don’t lose the tech. There are no reparations to be made after the war is over. No payment of what is past due, with or without interest…the debt just goes away. Sure, your rep is tainted, but if you come out ahead in tech does it really matter that much?

Now, I play primarily “clean” games. Unless something unavoidable happens, like a triggered MPP, I don’t break deals. When I declare war, I do it when there are no treaties or deals between me and my target, and none of my troops are in their territory. I’m not a peacenik, but if you handle your wars within the worldwide accepted protocol, then I’ve found the gpt deals will still be there, attitudes can be changed for the better pretty easily, and so on.

As for the “our troops are nearing your cities” option, I’ve had it work with the latest patches. It works more often if you wait a few turns while taking no more cities. You can nearly always get more than they initially offer, often including low-pop cities. It’s silly, however, when they say “No way!” and then turn around and agree to peace terms in a different screen.

My thoughts are that this is a pride, and possibly reputation, issue. Think about it on a schoolyard level for a second. You’re getting the holy hell beaten out of you. In front of your friends. The guy inflicting the beatdown stops for a second, and says, “Gimme your lunch money or I’ll pound you some more!” There are occassions where you’d admit defeat in front of everyone, but not many. More times than not, you’d say something like, “F you!” The kids around you would cheer, some may start rooting for you. Now, if you submit, the other kids would think you’re nothing more than a punching bag. However, the fighting may occur away from everyone’s eyes…they’d hear rumours of it, sure, but wouldn’t know exactly how it ended. This is how I envision the “I’d like to make a deal” (or whatever it’s called…I’m at work, heh) option. The fight stops without anyone really knowing the outcome. It would be easier to accept peace terms like that, even if you are giving up your lunch money for life, at least the only people who would know would be you and your assailant.

And the same goes for the “we have extended ourselves” option…it’s like the bully saying, “Man, let’s just stop this fight. I’m kicking your ass, but I’m getting tired,” in front of everyone. It would change how some people think about him.

That would be one change in the game that I haven’t seen mentioned here…we see who declares war on whom, but not how the war ends, with the exception of total annihilation. It would be nice to see “the Romans cower under the Mongol horde, becoming naught but their lapdog. The war has ended!” in a popup.

	20-12-2002 22:23									#6
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When at war and you want a peace treaty, simply select something like "Would you like to discuss a peace treaty." Just ignore the over-extending ourselves & the our troops approach your cities options.

Then based on what the AI will give, decide if you'll accept the deal.

On the 1 GPT for 20 turns can't be done, this means the AI is currently running a deficit. The AI is NOT allowed to sign a GPT that results in a deficit. For that matter, the AI won't credit GPT your offering past the point that you're running a deficit. Both of these are regardless of the cash in your tresary.

	20-12-2002 23:21									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

I tried it once (by accident) in PTW - I use the standard "We would like to discuss a deal" about 99% of the time. However, under vanilla Civ 3 (and my accidental try in PTW) it would work for me only in those instances in which I had a large force right outside a city or two -- i.e., ready to attack. In such cases the statement "Our troops appraoch . . ." is actually true! and it has produced offers. The "accident" in a recent PTW game caught me off guard, because I clicked thinking I would go to the trade screen and when I got there the poor AI had already offered up a peace treaty and just about everything it had to sweeten the deal.

AI envoys approach me to discuss peace all the time - haven't seen a noticeable decrease in this behavior in PTW yet.

Catt

	20-12-2002 23:49									#8
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Worked for me.

Rarely, but it worked.

P.S.
Even lend a money options woked sometimes (but even more rarely).

	21-12-2002 05:02									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

It used to work for me all the time.

	21-12-2002 05:16									#10
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quote: Originally posted by player1 Worked for me. Rarely, but it worked. P.S. Even lend a money options woked sometimes (but even more rarely).

I can get the "lend money" thing to work whenever the AI has a treasury, provided that they are a frequent trading partner and I haven't been in a war yet.

Never gotten "Our troops approach" to work.

	21-12-2002 11:40									#11
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In my current game Ive gotten 2 civs to make a deal when 'my troops were approaching their cities'...in the same game I also had a civ tell me to go to hell when I was knockin on the door of his LAST city...what I wonder is, does it have anything to do with the AI investigating your cities? I mean I know it does this, cause the AI is always heading straight for that ungarrisoned city...but maybe it has a better idea of how much you will kick its ass because it looked at all those units in your border cities?..dunno..anyway on another note I have never gotten a loan of Gold granted by any of my allies (maybe cause I asked during a world war that I caused)....and also, a question--Zululand and America have a MPP...Zulu goes to war with me out of nowhere to steal some workers i guess...i kick the living s*** out of Zulu little puny invasion force (about 8 or 9 units including *snicker* IMPIs--some I successfully defended to death but I DID attack some) yet no American declaration of war...cross the border into Zulu the next turn and kill a Swordsman and THATS when the American declare war on me...so am I reading that right? MPP partner only attack if partner attacked in own country?

	22-12-2002 00:12									#12
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That would make sense HL: attacking someone inside your borders=defending, so no activation of the MPP. I've also gone to war with someone in an MPP and had their partner declare war on me before any fighting happened, which was weird. Now that I think about it, though, I may have had units in their territory. So entering a civ's territory also activates MPP?

w/r/t "Our troops approach your cities," I think Catt has it right: you actually have to approach their cities, ie have a threatening number of units within one turn's striking distance.

	22-12-2002 02:56									#13
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MPP is activated by a subsequent attack or bombardment into one's territory. MPP is "Mutual PROTECTION Pact."

AI MPP "declare war" may occur before you actually see the activating action between your turns.

	22-12-2002 06:59									#14
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I just had it work. I had wiped out about half the Mongol empire with my tanks (poor things still have cavalry, tsk). On a whim I tried the "Our troops approach" line, and they countered with a nice offer of some gold, workers, and their map. All worthless to me, of course, so I told them no thanks and the war continued...

	22-12-2002 09:32									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Catt I tried it once (by accident) in PTW - I use the standard "We would like to discuss a deal" about 99% of the time. However, under vanilla Civ 3 (and my accidental try in PTW) it would work for me only in those instances in which I had a large force right outside a city or two -- i.e., ready to attack. In such cases the statement "Our troops appraoch . . ." is actually true! and it has produced offers. The "accident" in a recent PTW game caught me off guard, because I clicked thinking I would go to the trade screen and when I got there the poor AI had already offered up a peace treaty and just about everything it had to sweeten the deal. AI envoys approach me to discuss peace all the time - haven't seen a noticeable decrease in this behavior in PTW yet. Catt

just like you catt, I used it when I was eqypt and had 2 huge stacks right outside one of greece's cities. they had lost like 3 cities already and I pulled "my troops approach -----" and they offered all their techs and a bunch of gold. I was pleasantly surprised.

laterallis

	22-12-2002 18:38									#16
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It seems to work only if you have a good reputation- aka breaking RoP agreements in order to invade and burn down their capital isn't the smartest thing to do

	23-12-2002 12:05									#17
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quote: Originally posted by lateralis just like you catt, I used it when I was eqypt and had 2 huge stacks right outside one of greece's cities. they had lost like 3 cities already and I pulled "my troops approach -----" and they offered all their techs and a bunch of gold. I was pleasantly surprised. laterallis

Doesnt have to be literally square away from a city, but closer the better. It has worked for me in numerous occassions. You can even avoid fighting if you can land sizable force on a valuable city, bomb it couple of times and soften it. They'll quickly be willing to sign peace especially if you did that on a capitol. However, our troops approach isnt as good as manually making a peace deal. AI always tries to undercut you as much as he can. I do the our troops option, see what he offers and try to milk at least 1 gold more if i can.

	23-12-2002 13:51									#18
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no