21-12-2002 03:39									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui And, while it's good he stepped down, and Bill Frist will be Majority Leader (a MUCH more likeable person), I still think the whole contraversy was BS, and I don't think the comments were racist at all. But, believe what you want.

So in other words, if a politician expressed his opinion that Europe would have been better off had Hitler lived and succeeded, that politician is not necessarily anti-semitic?
Yeah, yeah -- Hitler was tens times more evil than Thurmond, but still . . . . . . . .

	21-12-2002 03:42									#32
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quote: So in other words, if a politician expressed his opinion that Europe would have been better off had Hitler lived and succeeded, that politician is not necessarily anti-semitic?

Totally different comparason and a false analogy. A better one is at the 100th birthday of Joerg Haider (I assume you know who that is), some Austrian politician said "I wish you became Chancellor, then we wouldn't have these problems anymore". Would you say the speaker was anti-immigrant? Or would you rather use your head and realise the speaker was talking about Haider's ideas of smaller government?

Unfortunetly, I assume you'd pick the former.

	21-12-2002 04:31									#33
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MrFUn, I think Hitler was just more honest and open about his feelings than Thurmond and Lott.

	21-12-2002 04:33									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: So in other words, if a politician expressed his opinion that Europe would have been better off had Hitler lived and succeeded, that politician is not necessarily anti-semitic? Totally different comparason and a false analogy. A better one is at the 100th birthday of Joerg Haider (I assume you know who that is), some Austrian politician said "I wish you became Chancellor, then we wouldn't have these problems anymore". Would you say the speaker was anti-immigrant? Or would you rather use your head and realise the speaker was talking about Haider's ideas of smaller government? Unfortunetly, I assume you'd pick the former.

Then African-Americans were insulted by Lott's comment because . . . . .

	21-12-2002 04:44									#35
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Because (and you'll looove to hear this) they just get offending when their 'leaders' tell them to. There was no reason to go hog wild on this, but Jesse and Al wanted to circle the wagons. And I bet the DNC was over this as well to take Republican momentum away.

Representative John Lewis (D-Ga), who is known as a Civil Rights leader, said he did not think Lott was racist and he just made a mistake and should accept the apology.

But, with Jesse was in full force and black caucus just had to follow along.

[rant]

Frankly (and unrelated), I think it is sick that anything that even touches on race becomes a source for outcry by the black community. I remember in college, this comic was making fun of racists, but that set the Black groups in a tizzy, and they made the paper apologize for putting such racist comics in the paper. IT WAS MAKING FUN OF RACISTS! Sometimes I just wonder if black groups even have any idea about the world around them or believe it is entitled to it all.

[/rant]

	21-12-2002 07:19									#36
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Thank God for Trent Lott! All the post election self-congratulation from republicans melted away in scandal and internal infighting His leaving the senate majority spot will not improve the Republican's image among Blacks, since the whole thing took so long. Don't expect Bush to get more than 20% of the Black vote come 2004, and even that might be high. As for you Jimmy: of course the race issue has not gone: the best example of how it continues to poison the south: Trent Lott and his message. And spraybear: Mississippi is backward: bottom of the bottom in all measures of wealth and socio-economic advancement in the US (but it has Arkansas to contend with). Its a fact, and we ivory tower northeners already send far too much of our wealth down south thanks to the federal government.

Not only that, but you got the first of our reverse carpetbaggers. We would have let y'all go peacefully, but you people wouldn't have it.

	21-12-2002 07:22									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Because (and you'll looove to hear this) they just get offending when their 'leaders' tell them to. There was no reason to go hog wild on this, but Jesse and Al wanted to circle the wagons. And I bet the DNC was over this as well to take Republican momentum away.

With such a fine opportunity handed you out of the clear blue sky (or at least out of the whatever color is the cavern of ol' Trent's mouth), who wouldn't run with it?

	21-12-2002 07:29									#38
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Running with it, and it being true are two different things . Though I guess that is usual for politics.

	21-12-2002 07:31									#39
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I'm generally of the Republican persuasion. But I feel very uncomfortable with the likes of Lott, who appears to be an Southern ex-Democrat, calling himself a Republican. I prefer to believe our party champions the cause of liberty and justice for all. We are, after all, the party of Lincoln.

President Bush showed real leadership in condemning Lott's statement and essentially forcing him out of the leadership position.

	21-12-2002 08:29									#40
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Or would you rather use your head and realise the speaker was talking about Haider's ideas of smaller government?

Unfortunetly, I assume you'd pick the former.

Yeah, but that wasn't the entire focus of Haider though, was it? Thurmond functionally run on segregation as his sole issue back then. Haider has some breadth to him.

	21-12-2002 08:33									#41
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quote: Thurmond functionally run on segregation as his sole issue back then. Haider has some breadth to him.

When we look back 50 years from now, we will say Haider, too, only ran on one issue: anti-immigration.

	21-12-2002 09:14									#42
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Maybe, but that doesn't mean that it isn't actually true in the Thurmond case. Not that I'm saying it is- neither of us were alive then- but my inclination is to believe the current accepted version.

Anybody know if Thurmond campaigned on something other than giving government programs to the South and Segregation?

	21-12-2002 09:54									#43
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Uh, Imran, you're way too clever to have overlooked the following:

- Thurmond's run for the presidency was based almost exclusively on segregation,so it's hard to discern any other possible meaning from Lott's comments
- Lott has a long, long history of open racist affirmations, from supporting Bob Jones University to penning a column for the CCC's magazine
- he made almost identical remarks in 1980, in a context in which the meaning was more clear.

Granted on the face of the comments, isolated from all else, it is not clear what he meant. But to ignore all the other contextual factors requires an absolute act of self-delusion!

The man is simply a racist of the worst kind: a racist with an especially bad hair piece.

Having said that, I think it's really a pity he has stepped down. The Democrats cannot hope for a better punching bag for Majority Leader than a nasty, unapologetic, racist, homophobic arch-conservative.

	21-12-2002 10:00									#44
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If you're talking about the 1960 election I remember that one, and yes segregation was virtually his entire platform, along with a little anti-catholicism aimed at John Kennedy, and a promise to eliminate the Cuban threat.

	21-12-2002 10:51									#45
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It's interesting watching the spinmeisters spinning the Lott resignation.

Lott resigned because he didn't have the Republican votes to survive a challenge. His votes disappeared when the White House abandoned him.

Now, the spinmeister Republicans are all congratulating Lott for being so noble in resigning from the leadership to aid the party, and they're cursing the evil Democrats for causing the resignation.

Meanwhile, the spinmeister Dems are trying to richocett the mud off Lott and land it on Frist. Some have already suggested Frist was being intimination of African-American voters during the last election. One has even written to the AG suggesting an investigation.

Our Founding Fathers certainly knew what they were doing when they chose muck-filled swampland at the place to build this nation's capital.

	21-12-2002 11:09									#46
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Frist has enough dirt without race. His family business is the largest corporate-owned string of helth care providers in the country, and according to CNN recently settled insurance fraud and abuse lawsuits amounting to 1.6 billion dollars.

I'm sure he'll be a key figure in the administration's orchestration of fake health care reform (more cash to the corporations, less care and protection to the patients). He is evidently merely a Bushy lap dog anyway, so the administraiton is doing a pretty good job of eroding *all* the checks and balances.

The sooner we rid ourselves of this scum, the better.

	21-12-2002 11:22									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Kepler recently settled insurance fraud and abuse lawsuits amounting to 1.6 billion dollars.

Wow, how'd I'd miss that piece of News?? I must have been watching Fox.

	21-12-2002 11:25									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Our Founding Fathers certainly knew what they were doing when they chose muck-filled swampland at the place to build this nation's capital.

Considering their view of central government, I do believe they were hoping that the skeeters and flies would kill off that which didn't have the good sense to sink out of sight, or simply leave and never come back.

	22-12-2002 02:12									#49
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quote: Thurmond's run for the presidency was based almost exclusively on segregation,so it's hard to discern any other possible meaning from Lott's comments

And Lott was how old when Thurmond ran for President? Could it be he was refering to the positions Thurmond backed when Lott was in the Senate with him? *gasp* NO!

Could it be he was paying Thurmond a compliment? No, no one would ever pay him a compliment .

quote: The man is simply a racist of the worst kind: a racist with an especially bad hair piece.

I assume then you'll want to throw Byrd out on his ass as well, because he was a member of the Klan. Oh WAIT! You accept his change of heart, but not Lott's? I see.

quote: His family business is the largest corporate-owned string of helth care providers in the country

So? He's also the only doctor in Congress. Gonna fault him for that too?

quote: according to CNN recently settled insurance fraud and abuse lawsuits amounting to 1.6 billion dollars.

We got a cite for that? I'm thinking if it were true (or as bad as you are saying) it'll be all over the news right now.

--

I'm glad Frist will be Majority Leader. He's a good guy, and he'll be a great voice for the Republican Party.

	22-12-2002 02:16									#50
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Frist's profile: courtesy of CNN.com:

quote: WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Sen. Bill Frist, R-Tennessee, seen as a likely successor to Sen. Trent Lott as Senate majority leader, is the first sitting senator since 1928 to be a practicing surgeon. The 50-year-old senator's resume is far from average. Before he was first elected to the Senate in 1994, Frist founded and directed the internationally renowned Vanderbilt Transplant Center for multi-organ transplants. His education includes an undergraduate degree from Princeton University specializing in health care policy followed by a medical degree with honors from Harvard Medical School, according to the senator's Web site. Frist's extensive background in the study and practice of health care and policy has contributed to Frist's apparent interest in health care legislation. According to his Web site, Frist is against so-called partial birth abortion, saying that he disagrees with supporters who say the procedure is necessary to save the lives of some mothers while giving birth. Earlier this year, Frist traveled throughout Africa to learn more about the continent's AIDS/HIV epidemic and how to fight it. His Web site says he opposes the use of cloning of humans and favors strengthening the U.S. military. In early December, Frist promised to begin the next session of Congress by working toward Medicare reform. "We must make the changes needed to modernize and strengthen the Medicare program, ensure adequate reimbursement to providers who serve Medicare patients, and provide seniors and disabled Americans with access to affordable prescription drug coverage," a Frist statement said. In June, Frist attended the White House signing ceremony of legislation he originally sponsored: a bill aimed at fighting bio-terrorism. Its aim was to establish new programs to protect the nation from health threats by "terrorists and foreign nations utilizing biological and chemical weapons," according to his Web site. Frist also serves as vice chairman of the Alliance for Health Care Reform, a nonpartisan, nonprofit group that works toward providing all Americans with affordable health care coverage. In July 1998, Frist used his medical training to help two shooting victims of a gunman who opened fire in the U.S. Capitol. Frist also reportedly gave the shooting suspect cardiopulmonary respiration and rode in the ambulance with him as he was taken to a Washington hospital. The shooting left two U.S. Capitol Police officers dead.

	22-12-2002 02:20									#51
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Is he a brain surgeon? Maybe he can give brain transplants to some democrats?

quote: His Web site says he opposes the use of cloning of humans and favors strengthening the U.S. military.

	22-12-2002 02:38									#52
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Maybe we should overlook Hitler's murder of 6 million Jews, since he helped Germany's economy recover.

After all, if we follow Imran's logic, we have focused entirely too much on the negative things that Hitler did when he was in power.

Look at the positive things he did, people!! geez

	22-12-2002 02:42									#53
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Hey Mr Fun, you work on getting a more apt screen name, yet .

Hey, if Hitler survived the war and some President said it was a good thing that he became Chancellor, I'd assume he would be refering to destroying communism.

Mr Fun lives in a world were if you agree with a man on one position, you agree with him on ALL positions. Interesting fantasy world he's got there.

	22-12-2002 04:10									#54
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quote: Originally posted by GePap And spraybear: Mississippi is backward: bottom of the bottom in all measures of wealth and socio-economic advancement in the US (but it has Arkansas to contend with). Its a fact, and we ivory tower northeners already send far too much of our wealth down south thanks to the federal government.

I'm shocked that you can descend from such a great height to speak with little people such as myself.

	22-12-2002 04:49									#55
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I remember a minor uproar during the 1960 election. Strom Thurman quoted somebody as saying that "the Southern race is the most discriminated against race in history." He didn't realise that he was quoting Robert Sheldon, a Grand Wizard of the KKK!

	22-12-2002 04:56									#56
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Thurmond didn't run in 1960, he ran in 1948.

	22-12-2002 05:02									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Thurmond didn't run in 1960, he ran in 1948.

He was a write-in candidate in 1960.

	22-12-2002 05:07									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove He was a write-in candidate in 1960.

As was I in 2000, so my brother says.

	22-12-2002 05:21									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov As was I in 2000, so my brother says.

He was a little more popular, not much, but a little.

Actually he ran for Vice President on a ticket with Harry Byrd in 1960. They got a whopping 14 electoral votes.

So we're both wrong!

	22-12-2002 05:50									#60
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Actually, that would make me 100% right.