06-01-2003 21:18									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin Btw, on the french map: Are the british real ****ers or what? half of their troops are already thousands of miles from the main front and the rest are in Southampton.

Oran II.

	06-01-2003 22:57									#32
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This looks bad for the Brits:

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	07-01-2003 02:23									#33
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I'm starting to get the hang of the game now (well I see that there's lot more to it but I understand the different phases) and it's interesting. More than you usually get from a strategy-game nowadays (damn the RTS-spam suckers call strategy).

	07-01-2003 03:45									#34
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That´s the right attitude! The boardgame is 20 years old, and people are still arguing about the best strategies; that says something.
-----
Finally! Cairo, Suez and Alexandria have fallen; all British troops in Egypt are destroyed or have surrendered. However, in unconditionally supporting Mussolini´s vendetta against the English and his dreams of a Neo-Roman Empire, I have just about spent myself into bankruptcy. Moreover, the Soviets are far from finished, and the shadow of the United States looms darkly on the Western horizon. In the moment it is far from clear if the 3rd Reich could afford this Egyptian Victory. 1942 will be the decisive year of the Second World War (or at least of this scenario, because it ends in Summer 42 ).

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	07-01-2003 04:19									#35
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So you're only playing the first part of the title (rise) and not the second (decline*). Isn't that kind of cheating. Like leading a football game in half time and then refuse to play on.

[oh that yes, those lousy santa caps are finally gone!!]

* Why decline? It's not like the 3rd reich faded away like and old man at the old folks home. Fall just seems better.

	07-01-2003 05:27									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin Isn't that kind of cheating. Like leading a football game in half time and then refuse to play on.

Not really, because the Victory Conditions are also different from the Grand Campaign.

They probably named it 'Rise and Decline' in honour to Gibbon ('Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire').
http://www.areyougame.com/interact/...o=AV41185%2D813

	07-01-2003 12:27									#37
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Damnit! This thread has fooled me again. Last time I saw it I was going to say Battlefield 1942, but noticed its about strat games and not FPS.

	09-01-2003 03:42									#38
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Anglo-Allied forces starting a buildup:

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	09-01-2003 04:01									#39
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Finished my first campaign with a stalemate as the allied at easy. Did pretty OK in the east and also nice in africa but after that I made to many trial and error-mistakes in my landings in the west. Well I learned a lot.

Those replacement-units; are they to any use at all or...?

	09-01-2003 05:33									#40
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First game 3rd Reich a stalemate is good, even at easy.

Replacements rock. Because:

-1 They only cost 1 Burp.
-2 They make great Attrition losses.
-3 You want to build two, sometimes 3, lines of defense. Not counting Replacements, your force pool would be too small. This is especially true from normal level up.

Replacements are among my favourites (no joke); their only disadvantage is that they place a burden on your SR. You want to use them where things will be static for a few turns, preferably.

Btw, that´s actually a -not quite obvious- advantage of the Red Army. Their Replacements are the 1-3s; at least I consider them not as bad Line Troops, but rather as mobile Replacements. Otoh, the designers somehow didn´t look favourably at the Red Airforce.

	09-01-2003 05:34									#41
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Nice and cheap for taking attrition losses.

	09-01-2003 16:54									#42
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Yes I've got that by now. At first I though they hade some more esoteric value as giving extra strength for the units at the front. So that's why people reads the manual. I started another game but know I hardly dares to move a unit. The manual scared me.

	10-01-2003 01:01									#43
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Go get'em Kropotkin!


I have enjoyed two PC wargames, one is Norm Koger's The Art of War (A Century of Warfare is the final version) and the other surprisingly enough is Civ2, some of the WW2 mods by Capt Nemo and others are very well done. Since there are a number of new logins on the boards they may not be aware of the old Civ2 Scenario Design efforts - they are well worth a look. Take a look through the forum.

The link below has a bunch of After Action Reports on TAOW. Gives a good overview of the game and if you would like playing some of the scenarios.

http://www.warfarehq.com/After_Acti...teraction.shtml

	11-01-2003 02:02									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin The manual scared me.

There are actually two manuals: Double scare day! The Operations Manual is the more readable, but the Reference Manual has the really important information. In the end you will not be able to evade reading both. It´s worth it, though. 3rd Reich is really the benchmark of WWII games.

	11-01-2003 02:21									#45
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Preparing to attack Leningrad:

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	11-01-2003 02:25									#46
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The Dnieper River Line:

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	11-01-2003 02:36									#47
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Leningrad falls! I didn´t get to Moscow, but the scenario ends with an Axis Decisive Victory nevertheless. At the end of the day, with taking Leningrad, Egypt and even Iraq, I had at least done better than Adolf. (This was normal difficulty, there are still 4 higher difficulty levels to explore; with this patch, the quality of the game is now as it should be; I only wish they had implemented Pbem. )

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	11-01-2003 05:33									#48
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Yeah I've noticed the two manuals, too bad I don't have a printer as it's not that easy to read on the screen and underlining important stuff with my pen is all but impossible...

I'm playing a second game on easy and now everything is working out fine. A bit to fine actually as the germans didn't have the guts to attack the not so mighty soviets and they're sorry about that now when I opened up the third front to help out the two in Italy and France. The loser has drawn away all his airsupport from the east so now even the russian airforce can contribute.

It's summer '44 and Stalin is about to lanch the fall offensive from his lines in eastern Europe. At the same time there's confused and heavy fighting in and around Napoli. Meanwhile troops are swarming into a all but undefended french countryside.

	11-01-2003 15:05									#49
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Heh; time to get the difficulty level up a notch.

	11-01-2003 16:13									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Sten Sture The link below has a bunch of After Action Reports on TAOW. http://www.warfarehq.com/After_Acti...teraction.shtml

I have TAOW, but somehow I was unimpressed. Can´t quite remember, why. Could it be the ai is bad? I seem to remember it ignored supply consideration, was therefore easy to beat, if you went around it in a wide arc, cutting its main supply line, something like that.

Perhaps I´ll give it another try.

	11-01-2003 23:59									#51
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Starting the 1939 Blitzkrieg scenario anew; this time playing the Allies on Challenging. Ai did good, competent starting moves, taking Denmark, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg in Winter 1939. If it keeps the pressure up like this, France will not survive for long.

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	12-01-2003 03:06									#52
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Now AM I committed to the Defence of France, or what?

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	12-01-2003 03:10									#53
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Chaotic attritional fighting ensues...

Now if I only knew who is cutting off whom...

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	12-01-2003 17:59									#54
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Meanwhile, at the Egyptian border...

Most Italian troops in the area have surrendered. The Western Desert Force is taking Benghasi. Other British troops are blocking Tobruk. (We can´t take it just now, though, because the major offensive needed for that is not on budget.)

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	12-01-2003 22:36									#55
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Fall 1940: France is still clinging to life, but only just. Lots of British troops are ferried over the Channel to bolster the defences of the demoralized French. But now the Allies are speedily running out of money. Uh-oh.

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	13-01-2003 00:39									#56
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I've only managed a stalemate again. I noticed it was a grave misstake not to open up the eastern front much earlier. Germany had something like 400 burps so no matter how much weight my attacks had all of his forces re-emerged within a round. I'm must learn better attack-tactics. My defensive ability is doing fine but that's not gonna help me in a game with a time limit.

	13-01-2003 01:20									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin Germany had something like 400 burps so no matter how much weight my attacks had all of his forces re-emerged within a round.

There is a way around this, but it´s a secret.

No, it isn´t. 3 Strategies, in order of importance:

1) Empty his forcepool. Strike deep with Armour, put large clusters out of supply. Units eliminated while out of supply can not be immediately rebuilt. He can´t build anything if he has no units in his force pool. Read the manual, I told you so.

2) Generously use offensive options on more than one front. If you use lots of offensives, he will be forced to do same. Equalize spending power by giving lots of lend-lease to Russia, so everybody can throw the kitchen sink at the Germans. Counter-air at every opportunity; planes are expensive. Much of the German money comes from conquests, so take his conquests away -reconquer Minor Capitals. Especially kill the Axis Minors, Finns, Hungarians, Rumanians, and kill Italy; the German forcepool is not sufficient without Axis. Did you know that you can force Italy out of the war even without taking Rome? If you didn´t, read the manual.

3) Use Strategic Bombing. Over time it does make a difference. Also Strategic Bombing can soak off one 5-factor air per year, which is then not available to build. If you didn´t know this, it´s because you haven´t read the manual, yet.

Those are not the expert strategies. Those are the Rookie strategies. The expert strategies fill about 20 or so copies of the General (old wargaming mag). That´s why 3R is the Holy Grail of WWII strategy gaming. I wonder if there has ever been ANY other game for the PC -WWII or any other topic- where you could write 20 booklets full of strategies about.

	13-01-2003 01:29									#58
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Winter 1940: The fate of France is looking grim. German Armour has reached the Seine, Italian troops are infiltrating the Alps, the Maginot line is in shambles. We are spending the last Francs on a desperate counter-offensive. Gloire! Patrie! Liberté!

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	13-01-2003 23:21									#59
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Spring/Summer 1941: Paris falls in Spring, and France is throwing in the towel. The BEF retreats to St. Nazaire. The British Economy suffers catastrophic losses from the U-boat menace. Germany invades and conquers Yugoslavia. Impressed by the German successes, Hungaria, Rumania, Bulgaria and Finland join the Axis.

On the plus side, British forces capture Tobruk. A large Italian taskforce, comprising about 1/3 of the entire Italian navy, is sunk near the coast of Sicily.

Apart from U-boat activity, the Germans are mostly ignoring Britain. This does not keep the Prime Minister from holding a poetic speech: "We will fight them at the beaches. We will fight them in the fields. We will never surrender!"

A few Strategic Bombers are being sent to Berlin, and damage the largest German gnome factory. Production of gnomes is drastically reduced in 1941. Enraged, Adolf Hitler makes a fateful decision: An entire German Airfleet is ordered back to the homeland "to defend the German race and its gnomes". This Airfleet will not be available for the impending 'Operation Barbarossa'. Goering is rumoured to have commented: 'I always knew that the man was mad.'

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	13-01-2003 23:30									#60
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I think we should rename this thread Comrade Tribune's Fall of the 3rd Reich thread.