21-12-2002 11:30									#1
	The religion of the members of our government makes our policy Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Unfortunately, it's true. Being a catholic I believe the land over there is Israel's, and all of our other presidents have been Christians and they have the same belief as I. There's suppose to be separation of church and state, but the reason we're so nice to Israel is because our presidents are Christians. It's ridiculous we call Sharon a man of peace when he murders innocent Palestinians. I have to admit, he's in a difficult position. I don't know what I'd do if people from a different country kept on doing terrorist attacks on my country.

	21-12-2002 11:37									#2
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we're nice to isrealis because theyre friendly people in the middle east.

but yes. our decisions are made by people. people have beliefs and their morals are built on those. look at the abortion debate.

you cant expect a religious man to make secular decisions, it goes against their nature.

	21-12-2002 11:46									#3
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quote: Originally posted by johncmcleod There's suppose to be separation of church and state, but the reason we're so nice to Israel is because our presidents are Christians. [/qb]

You're entitled to that opinion, but I see little to support the claim that a President's religion is the reason why we support Israel (Indeed, at an educated guess, I would say Carter was one of the most religious presidents we've had in the last 50 years, and he hasn't been particularily pro-Israel, compared to most of the other presidents). The US's close relationship with Israel grew during the cold war, as a counter to the growing relations between much of the Arab world and the Soviet Union. We have maintained the friendship because it has serves us just as it serves Israel - we have benefited from our relationship with Israel in terms of military technology and intelligence, as well as having a partner that has proved itself loyal and working for the same interest as us. It was Israel that provided the West with it's first hands-on examination of a working Soviet Mig, it was Israel that was willing to offer assistance in preventing the Syrians attacking, it was Israel that destroyed Osirak and pushed Iraq's nuclear weapons program 10 years back in the early 80s. When Iraq sent scuds raining down on Israel, Israel didn't retaliate because we had asked them not to, despite the negative effect it had on Israel's detterance power. Israel is also a democracy - and that plays a part, too.

quote: It's ridiculous we call Sharon a man of peace when he murders innocent Palestinians.

Let's make wild generalizations, shall we? The IDF has killed innocent Palestinians, but has tried to minimize those casualties while targeting terrorists.

If Sharon simly wanted to murder Palestinians, the IDF could most likely wipe them out in weeks. Instead, we have a very low civilian death count for an extremely powerful army in a conflict that has been going on for over two years.

And Sharon was one of the people who helped keep the Camp David Treaty with Egypt from fallind apart.

quote: I have to admit, he's in a difficult position. I don't know what I'd do if people from a different country kept on doing terrorist attacks on my country.

Well, if the US is any example, you go into the areas supporting and training the terrorists and you destroy their infrastructure, and try to minimize the civilian casualties.

	21-12-2002 15:45									#4
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No, Shron doesn't murder innocent Palestinians, he got others to do this nasty job. Like once he was sitting back in the shade with his army, watching Christian Libanese militia massacring Palestinians. That got him a war crime accusation from Belgium, but why should anyone care...

	21-12-2002 17:28									#5
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The religion of the majority of donors controls the policy of the government. You could elect a government made up entirely of Zen Buddhists, but to function and survive politically they'd still have to advocate policy that fed the desires of the paying electorate.

The religious convictions of any given politician are almost completely irrelevant. Even a supreme idiot like Bushy who has said he's a Creationist is not going to mandate that Creationism is taught instead of Evolution in the public schools. If on the other hand that was the will of the voters, then even the most intelligent man of honor couldn't do anything but that and survive the pressure.

	21-12-2002 18:39									#6
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I always thought oil was the be all and end all of American foreign policy...

	21-12-2002 18:46									#7
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It doesn't matter if the leaders have personal convictions, they will have to follow the will of the people or they won't get reelected. Most Americans believe in evolution (or approve of it, despite the fact they really don't know about it) over creationism.

Anyways, Israel deserves to exist and must, and should defend itself against terrorism. Sharon is a in a difficult spot but the decisions he has made will preserve Israel. The Palestinians will continue to use terror and not come to the diplomatic table because remember it was the Palestinians that started this mess a few short years ago. And Arafat is a long time terrorist.

	22-12-2002 10:39									#8
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When it comes to the seperation of church and state no president said "screw it" like Reagan.

	23-12-2002 00:56									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Fez It doesn't matter if the leaders have personal convictions, they will have to follow the will of the people or they won't get reelected.

Oh yeah, and that's so true in America...

	23-12-2002 03:36									#10
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I didn't know legalised bribery and theft was a religion.

	23-12-2002 05:43									#11
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quote: The religion of the members of our government makes our policy

No ****ing duh





















People are people. Their morals are embedded into them. That's why we need to replace our Congresspersons with robots, so they can focus on the issues without a bias.

	23-12-2002 09:05									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker I didn't know legalised bribery and theft was a religion.

What do you think the Catholic Church did in the Middle Ages?

	23-12-2002 09:32									#13
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my sig sums it up...

yeah, and too many damns religious fools are in govt...

	23-12-2002 12:11									#14
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quote: Being a catholic I believe the land over there is Israel's,

Why? Because a tribe known as the Israelites moved in there thousands of years ago, burning, raping, murdering, and pillaging everyone around them, set up a kingdom, and then later left?

	23-12-2002 12:22									#15
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Why? Because a tribe known as the Israelites moved in there thousands of years ago, burning, raping, murdering, and pillaging everyone around them, set up a kingdom, and then later left?

I like the emphasis on the first part of that question, and the absolute simplicity of the last part. Nice and inflammatory.

BTW, want to name a group of people not "burning, raping, murdering, and pillaging", as you so elloquently put it, back then? (indeed, people were still doing it thousands of years later...)

	23-12-2002 13:55									#16
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quote: Even a supreme idiot like Bushy

supreme idiot??
are you really serious about that?

quote: Sava: my sig sums it up...

quote: Sava's sign: faith is irrational...

nice but untrue.
my faith is, among other reasons, based on ration.

quote: David Floyd: Why? Because a tribe known as the Israelites moved in there thousands of years ago, burning, raping, murdering, and pillaging everyone around them, set up a kingdom, and then later left?

You really believe that's the whole story?

----
I can't do anything but conclude that anti-bush / anti-israel people like it to insult people personal and hold simplistic one-sided views of very complicated problems.

	23-12-2002 14:03									#17
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Is Bush a creationist and if so what sought. I really hope he isn't one of the earth is 6000 years old brigade

	23-12-2002 20:13									#18
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Personally I'd say big bursiness has just as much a say as religion. But then (compared to Western Europe) much of America is pretty religious anyway.

	23-12-2002 20:37									#19
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quote: Originally posted by johncmcleod Unfortunately, it's true. Being a catholic I believe the land over there is Israel's, and all of our other presidents have been Christians and they have the same belief as I. There's suppose to be separation of church and state, but the reason we're so nice to Israel is because our presidents are Christians. It's ridiculous we call Sharon a man of peace when he murders innocent Palestinians.

ANd what do you make of the fact that there are more Christians in the occupied Palestinian area (e.g., Bethlehem) than there are in Isreal?

	23-12-2002 20:39									#20
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Why? Because a tribe known as the Israelites moved in there thousands of years ago, burning, raping, murdering, and pillaging everyone around them, set up a kingdom, and then later left?

no - because no one can take it from them now.

	24-12-2002 00:23									#21
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And Americans will die as the Republicrats make sure of that. I'm just surprised it wasn't some Palestinian group attacking us on 9/11...