22-12-2002 15:36									#1
	PS2 or XBox? Support Apolyton

Bought PS2 today for the boys for Christmas. We were looking at Xbox as well. Which is better for teenagers? Xbox seemed to be more adult oriented, while PS2 had more game selection.

	22-12-2002 15:39									#2
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PS2 of course

	22-12-2002 15:41									#3
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How old are your boys?

Both PS2 and Xbox's main demographic are ~13+ as far as I'm concerned.

If your kids are into console RPGs, the PS2 is better.
If your kids are into console FPS and racing games, Xbox is better (the only good racer on the PS2 that I know of is GT3?)
Other than that the two platforms are about equal. Of course the Xbox has a much more capable graphics chip, sound chip, and twice the RAM with twice the bandwidth and features like texture compression -- but the PS2 isn't really that bad.

Xbox is a much better choice if you have a home theatre IMO. Since the PS2 doesn't support HDTV resolutions and real-time encoding of Dolby Digital 5.1 in every game like the Xbox does, it's not as well suited for the home theatre.

There are more games for PS2, since it's the most popular console, and I don't think they'll be disappointed with it though.

A couple pointers: the PS2 comes with a lot less than Xbox did for the same price. Xbox comes with two full version games (SegaGT 2002 [racing], Jet Set Radio Future [Japanese-style weird game]) while the PS2 comes with zero games at the moment.

Also make sure that you have at least one memory card for them, else they won't be able to save the games. Memory cards are optional on the Xbox, since the Xbox has a built in harddrive and the PS2 doesn't.

If they want to play online games, they'll need to buy the network adapter for ~$60 (if you can find one ), whereas the Xbox comes with a built in ethernet connection.

If they want to connect more than two controllers at once to the PS2, they'll need to get the "multitap" peripheral. Xbox comes with 4 ports standard.

Also, if they're big into online gaming and you have a broadband connection, PS2's online gaming pales in comparison to Xbox's...

The most important thing is the memory card -- it is a basic requirement, and last I checked Sony still made people buy them seperately.

	22-12-2002 16:02									#4
	Suffering from ads?

Nice analysis, and not even too biased.

	22-12-2002 17:09									#5
	Suffering from ads?

MS will stop sponsoring Asher if he keeps posting things like that.

Loif: If by any chance you or your kids like soccer games then getting PS2 was the right move.
ProEvolutionSoccer 2 = BEST. GAME. EVER.
But since you're Canadian I'm guessing you couldn't give a hoot about soccer games.

	22-12-2002 17:11									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Asher (the only good racer on the PS2 that I know of is GT3?)

Colin McRae Rally 3 is good too .... but yes the selection of racers is poor.

	22-12-2002 17:11									#7
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quote: If your kids are into console RPGs, the PS2 is better. If your kids are into console FPS and racing games, Xbox is better (the only good racer on the PS2 that I know of is GT3?)

if you kids are into footy games, the PS2 is better. That's my main reason for sticking with my PS2.

	22-12-2002 17:15									#8
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quote: ProEvolutionSoccer 2 = BEST. GAME. EVER.

Amen to that

	23-12-2002 02:36									#9
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet Loif: If by any chance you or your kids like soccer games then getting PS2 was the right move. ProEvolutionSoccer 2 = BEST. GAME. EVER. But since you're Canadian I'm guessing you couldn't give a hoot about soccer games.

PES2 isn't sold in North America. Sorry boys.

quote: Colin McRae Rally 3 is good too .... but yes the selection of racers is poor.

Colin McRae Rally 3 is multiplatform...guess which platform has the best version.
Rallisport Challenge is much better anyway.

	23-12-2002 03:18									#10
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Too many kids with rich parents on Apolyton...

	23-12-2002 03:35									#11
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PS2.
As of right now, the popularity ranking is PS2> NGC> X-Box...so as has been said, you'll have more games with a PS2 (though Sony really should make a new package with at least one game and a memory card though...but lack of that hasn't affected them yet) .

And ProEvolutionSoccer 2 has apparently been announced for the NA Gamecube though.

	23-12-2002 03:39									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Hueij Too many kids with rich parents on Apolyton...

I was thinking the same thing. The last console system I got was an SNES, then when NU64 (or more commenly refered to N64), I switched to PC and stayed there.

	23-12-2002 03:45									#13
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by JCG PS2. As of right now, the popularity ranking is PS2> NGC> X-Box...so as has been said, you'll have more games with a PS2 (though Sony really should make a new package with at least one game and a memory card though...but lack of that hasn't affected them yet) .

The popularity ranking in North America is PS2 > Xbox > NGC.
It's also like that in the UK and Australia. It may be different in continental Europe though, but Loif lives in Canada.

quote: And ProEvolutionSoccer 2 has apparently been announced for the NA Gamecube though.

Er...when was this?
I'm 99.9% sure they haven't made any such announcement. Konami has hinted at making PES2 for "other platforms" and also hinted at making it in North America, but the Gamecube would not be the logical choice. Looking at sports games sales, the Xbox and PS2 sell WAY better than GCN for sports games.

That's why Sega has withdrawn future support for its Sega Sports games on Gamecube, from the 2004 games on they'll only be Xbox and PS2.

	23-12-2002 03:55									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

According to a website, the PS2 is FASTER
than an X-Box
PS2: ~300MHz x 32bit = 9600
X-Box: ~600MHz x 8bit = 4800

Of course, I'm probably wrong... but never mind, I got it off a pro-Sony website . The X-Box processor is 8bit, btw, while the PS2 is 32bit processor, according to this site.

Anyway... does anyone remember that whole "Emotion Engine" **** Sony came up with when they released the PS2?

Apparently, the PS2 HDD is coming out in Japan next year (although it may already be out)

	23-12-2002 03:58									#15
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Comedy Gamecube option.

There's a reason Gamespot named Metroid Prime best game overall on all platforms.

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/featur...2/general2.html

	23-12-2002 04:01									#16
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by redbull According to a website, the PS2 is FASTER than an X-Box PS2: ~300MHz x 32bit = 9600 X-Box: ~600MHz x 8bit = 4800 Of course, I'm probably wrong... but never mind, I got it off a pro-Sony website . The X-Box processor is 8bit, btw, while the PS2 is 32bit processor, according to this site.

ROFLMAO

#1: "Bits" don't mean a damn thing on consoles
#2: The CPU on the PS2 spends most of its time doing graphics calculations (transformation and lighting) that are done entirely on the Xbox's GPU

The Xbox is far more powerful than the PS2, don't let marketing tell you otherwise.

PS: The Xbox is technically a 32-bit processor and so is the Emotion Engine in the PS2. The vector units on the PS2 have 128-bit registers because it uses that precision for T&L calculations that are done in 128-bit registers on the graphics chip on the Xbox. The Xbox's CPU has 80-bit floating point registers, which is MORE than enough for the physics and AI that the CPU has to do.

Electronic Arts did some benchmarking to see where each console stood:
http://www.cs.brown.edu/~tor/sig2002/ea-shader.pdf

code:
               Basketball player                   Bunny 
Platform  Gouraud      Lit          Skinned        Gouraud 
PS2       17.0 / 22.6  10.9 / 14.7   8.5 / 11.5   25.2 / 31.8 
XBox      47.2 / 91.4  22.4 / 43.4  14.2 / 30.3   63.9 / 93.8 
NGC       18.7 / NA    10.3 / NA     7.2 / NA     NA   / NA 

	23-12-2002 04:02									#17
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If I ever got a console (need money ), I'd get an Xbox... it just has better specs than a PS2. If I had a Playstation, I'd get PS2, so I could play my old PS games on it, but aside from that, the XBox just seems so much better.

	23-12-2002 04:09									#18
	Increase the size of your Attachments

why not just get both

	23-12-2002 04:15									#19
	Suffering from ads?

What are we, made of money!!

	23-12-2002 04:46									#20
	Increase Your PM Length

Asher:
I took that from the polls at Gamefaqs so the demographics for that ranking wouldn't be solely American. Heck, all polls have some bias, even yours do.

And while upon further checking Konami has since forgotten that announcement (as the year is over), the point is it sure was made once, so don't rely only on your 99.9% "hunch" and check things out in news sites once in a while.

But more importantly, Konami's Winning Eleven 6 Final Evolution (same series for those who know) IS currently announced for 2003 in the NGC, in Japan for now but history shows that a PAL release wouldn't be unlikely. You can check that too.

Of course the PS2 outsells the Cube, and the X-Box outsells it in NA and anglo-countries. That makes it understandable that some companies may not want to port sport games to the NA NGC any more.

But still, don't get the wrong idea....PS2 is the current leading console and I would rather trade it in for an X-Box, than for a NGC.

	23-12-2002 05:48									#21
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quote: And ProEvolutionSoccer 2 has apparently been announced for the NA Gamecube though.

I don't think so. That's ISS.

There's a lot of confusion between the two titles.

Konami has two soccer game series on the market.

One is International Superstar Soccer. This series dates back to the SNES, and has seen versions released on the SNES, PSX and N64. Recently, ISS2 has been released (or will be) on the PS2, GC and XBox.

The other is Pro Evolution Soccer. Another soccer game by Konami. This series is a spinoff of the ISS series, and has seen two titles released on the PS2.

PES is a better game, and is more popular. I don't understand why Konami released ISS as well.

There's a lot of confusion between the two games. Both are released by Konami, both are fairly similar (though PES is the superior version). And both are based on the Winning Eleven game series in Japan.

Plus...on the PSX, International Superstar Soccer Pro Evolution was launched. Then the PS2 came, and Konami launched Pro Evolution Soccer, it's name being very similar to it's PSX predecesor. But at the same time, Konami also released International Superstar Soccer 2000 on the PS2! So which one is the "official" decendent of the earlier ISSPE and ISSPE2 of the PSX? It seems that ISS2000 and ISS2 are continuations on this series, while PES is a (superior) spin off. confusing, confusing.

In short, Konami is completely bonkers.


EDIT: a version of PES will be released on the GC, but it's not PES2, but PES2002 (few details known).

Konami footy games, it's even more confusing than I feared. this list isn't complete even. The Winning Eleven games (few dozen in total, on the GBA, GC, PSX and PS2) haven't been included in this list.

International Superstar Soccer (SNES, GB, GBA)
International Superstar Soccer Deluxe (SNES, PSX)
International Superstar Soccer 64 (N64)
International Superstar Soccer '98 (N64)
International Superstar Soccer '99 (GB)
International Superstar Soccer Pro (PSX)
International Superstar Soccer Pro '98 (PSX)
International Superstar Soccer 2000 (GB, N64, PS2)
International Superstar Soccer Pro Evolution (PSX)
International Superstar Soccer Pro Evolution 2 (PSX)
International Superstar Soccer 2 (XB, GC, PS2)
Pro Evolution Soccer (PS2, PSX)
Pro Evolution Soccer 2 (PSX, PS2)

Not yet released:
Pro Evolution Soccer 2002 (GC)
International Superstar Soccer Advance (GBA)

	23-12-2002 05:52									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus PES is a better game, and is more popular. I don't understand why Konami released ISS as well.

Nor do I. The ISS label is now clearly inferior.
Plus, the kind of people who would prefer ISS to PES would be far better off getting a FIFA game.
It seems to me that the ISS label has no niche to fill in the marketplace.

	23-12-2002 06:19									#23
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Heck, Saint Marcus is right, no contest. All bow to Saint Marcus!

Damn that Konami for changing the names so much though....Then, Winning Eleven 6 Final Evolution will probably be under the "Pro Evolution" label if it's released in Europe. Makes more sense than going back to ISS...

	23-12-2002 20:26									#24
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I've played every single Konami soccer game since Hyper Soccer on the NES. It was the original International Superstar Soccer on the SNES that got me hooked though. Amazing game.

Winning Eleven 6 has been released in Japan for the PS2, and sold in the rest of the world under the name Pro Evolution Soccer 2.

Konami is working on Winning Eleven 6 Final Evolution, for the PS2 and GC. The PS2 version will be released late December, the GC version early January. If and when the games will be released in other parts of the world is still uncertain.

Also, there doesn't appear to be a huge difference between WE6 and WE6FE. It will probably be similar to the differences between ISS and ISS Deluxe back in the SNES days. Mostly cosmetic, new player rosters, perhaps a new team or two. I don't think they've created a new engine for the game (or they'd have called it WE7, as they always do). PES 2002 might be WE6FE.

	23-12-2002 20:33									#25
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I have them both. for every good xbox game i can find a good PS2 game. same for games that suck. my xbox has locked up a couple of times. no big deal - a reboot fixes everything.... but.

	23-12-2002 22:12									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

On the original topic/question by Loif...

I think both are actually good choices, so you can't say your choice was bad either. Some prefer PS2 and some go for the Xbox. Well, maybe I'm more interested in PS2, but if I would get a console, I would indeed concider all alternatives as I'm not that bound to any specific console brand. However I once upon a time had a Nintendo GameBoy.

	24-12-2002 01:17									#27
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quote: Originally posted by My Wife Hates CIV I have them both. for every good xbox game i can find a good PS2 game. same for games that suck. my xbox has locked up a couple of times. no big deal - a reboot fixes everything.... but.

What game were you playing when it locked up?

Was it Morrowind or an EA game?

The only times I've had my Xbox lock up was when I rented Morrowind, and apparently others have too since it's a buggy game. And during victory celebrates in NHL 2002 at the end of the game, it would lock up and crash at the exact same moment every time.

I called EA and they said I had a faulty game disc and offered to send me a new one for $25...no thanks.

	24-12-2002 01:47									#28
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If you like Halo and motor sports games, buy a X-box. Else, buy PS2.

	24-12-2002 06:16									#29
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Unquestionably, the Xbox is better. The only reason not to get one would be some of the platform specific titles that will not be coming to Xbox (like XenoSaga, etc.)

Something to keep in mind... If you buy a PS2 don't count on it lasting for more than 2 years. The lenses they put on those things are pieces of crap and they stop working. I have several friends whose PS2's have all stopped working because the lense won't read discs any more. Opening up the PS2 and cleaning it will add a few months, but there are like 30 screws to undo (I've done it, the thing isn't meant to be opened) and it takes a while.

Asher has pretty much said everything else I was going to already. With better graphics, more power, built in harddrive, better support for sound and HDTV, built in 4 players, and online gaming that completely outclasses the other 2 consoles, the Xbox is really the best way to go.

PS... you can also burn CD's onto the Xbox and play them back. Not as good as a PC by any means, but it's a nice feature.

	24-12-2002 17:35									#30
	Tired of ads?

quote: If you buy a PS2 don't count on it lasting for more than 2 years.

bullshit!




Anyway. best reason to get a PS2: more games to chose from, more triple A titles. A console is nothing without games, as MS is finding out now (judging by the crappy sales of the XBox).