26-01-2001 01:25									#31
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I won't answer the question in the way stated, since asking which civ was the most important is like asking which link in a chain is the most important.

So I will answer with a civ that if it hadn't existed, the world would be very different. This civ isn't recognized as uber innovators like the Greeks and such. This civ is mor like a nexxus between the ancient and modern worlds.

Well, my civ is the Byzantines. The Byzantines if you do not know was the evolved Eastern Roman Empire that survived the Germanic invasion and the fall of the empire in the west. The Byzantines preserved Hellenic and Roman civilization while western Europe was rebuilding itself and other civs like China and India were recovering from their own bouts with nomadic tribes. During the rise of Islam during the latter 1st mellennium, it was the Byzantines that were the first line of defence for Western Civilization in it's modern infancy. If Byzantium had fallen during those early times, Europe, therefore the world would be a very different place. By the time Constantinople (the Byzantine capital) had fallen in 1453, Western Europe had become strong enough to defend itself and was poised to project its power around the globe. In fact, Western Europe matured at the right time, since Byzantium was in decline, as shown by the Crusades. Byzantium was responsible for the Rennaisance in Italy, since it was Byzantines escaping the fall of Constantinople in 1453 who brought over much of Greek and Roman art, literature, etc so that they would not be destroyed by the Turks.

Vitmore

	26-01-2001 01:46									#33
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Double Post
[This message has been edited by Vitmore The Great (edited January 26, 2001).]

	26-01-2001 01:52									#34
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[This message has been edited by Vitmore The Great (edited January 26, 2001).]

	26-01-2001 01:54									#35
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[This message has been edited by Vitmore The Great (edited January 26, 2001).]

	26-01-2001 11:08									#39
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cpoulos, US was an example of elements of the Roman Republic brought back, not the Republic recreated in essence and form, just wanted to clear up the misunderstanding. Only about 30 000 of Athens' population of about 250 000 in Classical Times were citizens, the rest being the merchant class and slaves with no voting rights, though they were all generally treated with the same standards as citizens minus the vote. Yes democracy, for citizens, like today. I think this issue is one fo the issues tha actually holds Classical Greece from being my Number 1, they had the ideas and innovations, but did not neccessarily apply them universally. The Greeks were the inventors, the Romans the appliers/builders.
Not saying the Romans were perfect or anything, far from it.

	26-01-2001 15:38									#40
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I would say the first human civilization was the MOST influential (and it being the only one around at the time, the most powerful as well). If the first civilization had developed just 1 second (yes, second, nearly everything discovered is an accident)before it did today. For all we know, we might be using zorklagula instead of what we call electricity.

	26-01-2001 18:59									#41
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For Vitmore: Thanks for the clarification. A very well thought out response, and a persuasive argument, but I stand by my selection.

	27-01-2001 05:04									#42
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Alright cpoulos. Nothing wrong with that!

Okay people, lets here some other suggestions!


Vitmore

	27-01-2001 08:40									#43
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Greece is the best (city state, voting, influenced Romans, conquered large amount of the world)

China was the best for a time in tech development (fireworks *gunpowder if they followed that tech line*