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Smokey tha nuke man
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da dawg house
Oct 2000
time: 05:12
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the romans, who gave us our language,our government (most governments are based upon the roman republic, not the greeks direct democracy and oligarchy) aqueducts, the arch, the road, civilized barbarian lands (gaul, britain, etc.), and, on the silly side, the only ever horse in government (he was a senator).
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Anodyne
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Being perverse is bad.
Jan 2001
time: 07:12
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Greeks could be it, though if the Phoenicians really introduced alphabet, etc. to the Greeks, then it'd be the Phoenicians, but since it's so uncertain, I guess I'll say Greeks, though one can't actually name the most 'important' civ. I'd rather speak about the most INFLUENTIAL civilizations.
Greeks/Phoenicians/Romans, perhaps.
Though all the Mesopotamian civilizations (Sumerians, Babylonians, Assyrians) also had a huge influence on all civilized world, for inventing mathematics, writing, astronomy, etc. So, if the Greeks/Phoenicians/Romans were socially most important, the Mesopotamian civs were scientifically the most ifluential.
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Eating people is fun.
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Caesar the Glutton
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Appalachian Mountains
Nov 2000
time: 22:12
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I would have expanded more on my claim, but I'm supposed to be working  I'll try to make my argument a little more persuading: There are two clues to an understanding of the Romans: they borrowed much from the Greeks and others, and they modified what they took. Rome was the great intermediary - the bridge over which passed the rich contributions of the ancient Near East and especially Greece, to form the basis of modern Western civilization. The Romans replaced the anarchy of the Hellenistic Age with law and order and embraced the intellectual and artistic legacy of the conquered Greeks. As Rome's empire expanded, this legacy was spread westward throughout most of Europe. The growth of Rome from a small city-state to the dominant power in the Mediterranean world in less than 400 years (509-133 B.C.) is a remarkable success story. Roman expansion was not deliberately planned; rather, it was the result of dealing with unsettled conditions, first in Italy and then abroad, which were thought to threaten Rome's security. Rome always claimed that its wars were defensive. By 270 B.C. the first phase of Roman expansion was over. Ringed by hostile peoples - Etruscans in the north, predatory hill tribes in central Italy, and Greeks in the south - Rome had subdued them all after long, agonizing effort and found itself master of all Italy south of the Po valley. (After Rome's fall in the fifth century A.D., Italy was not again unified until 1870.) In the process the Romans developed the administrative skills and traits of character - both fair-minded and ruthless - that would lead to the acquisition of an empire with possessions on three continents by 133 B.C. Instead of slaughtering or enslaving their defeated foes, the Romans treated them fairly, in time creating a strong loyalty to Rome throughout the peninsula. Roman citizenship was a prized possession that was not extended to all peoples on the peninsula until the first century B.C. Most defeated states were required to sign a treaty of alliance with Rome, which bound them to adhere to Rome's foreign policy and to supply troops for the Roman army. No tribute was required, and each allied state retained local self-government. Rome did, however, annex about one fifth of the conquered lands, on which nearly thirty colonies were established by 250 B.C.
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Nam si violandum est ius, regnandi gratia violandum est: aliis rebus pietatem colas
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Chris 62
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But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:12
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For Caesar: A most eloquent answer, but I beg to differ. The chaos of the hellenistic world cannot be denied. For the greeks, this was brought about by their own desire for independance from other greeks. I think of Rome more as the lords of order, whose main contriubution was in warfare(Almost all roman weapons and armor were adapted from their defeated foes!), and their ability in organize and unify themselves. Slavery, bloodsports, tyranny, and injustice are also Rome's legacy. In economic matters, rome was a subsistance agricultural nation, who's own civil wars bankrupted their ability to expand. Much to be admired, but much to be loathed. And I am also at work as I write this!
[This message has been edited by cpoulos (edited January 24, 2001).]
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Bereta_Eder
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Through a quick reading of ceasar's anthem I cannot help but notice that it's all about empires not civs. Some how I cannot understand what the colloseum contributed to civilization and why it's «wrong» to loath such practices because they are «great» or of «great people»? Ancient tragedies were played in greek theaters long before that!
Isn't the spirit that always preveils? Rome conquered an already inner divided greece and took away the DEMOCRACY of it - not the «anarchy» as it may seem to those who have not fully understood it.
Still the spirit preveils. Greece conquered rome in spirit by imposing its culture on the romans and that's why the roman empire was not just one more massive acquisition of lands but actually divided the world into «civilized» and «barbaric». And romes practises towards conquered people were nothing new.
Hmm, I think I am saying the same things as Ceasar. The only difference is that I think that civs are not only about the size of their (no) lands.
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johnmcd
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Edinburgh
Oct 1999
time: 05:12
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I would say the Italians in general, If we can credit them with the achievements of the Romans, and then the Renaissance then there is surely nobody that can hold a candle to them.
As for the USA.
1) Mightiest for all of ten years so far…and even then you can’t fight a war without worrying that someone might get hurt which leaves all those guns impotent. Even if you did fight you couldn’t win against any other nuclear power, relatively, you are one of the weakest mightest civs of all time.
2) Its all relative, standard of living is hard to measure with any historical accuracy. Anyway, there are people in the States that live in conditions that would not look too out of place in the third world.
3) For fifty years, with interruptions, not the same as the Romans with the strongest for hundreds of years without interruption.
4) Oh please. Two achievements that aren’t even that good. The USSR got to space first which is better than the moon and the Chinese got gunpowder which is better than the bomb. Your real achievements are things like electric lighting and, um, the phonograph. Look at the Scots, we do TV, Penicillin, Malaria vaccine, Telephone etc. On top of that we do some genuinely good civilising things like the first public education policy and I wouldn’t say we come in the top ten. Maybe in a hundred years time the states will have done enough to be the greatest ever, but at the moment the states are just starting, and to be honest its not that impressive a start, if they are aiming at civilisation.
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Action
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R'lyeh
Dec 2000
time: 05:12
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>1) Mightiest for all of ten years so far…and even then you can’t fight a war without worrying that someone might get hurt which leaves all those guns impotent. Even if you did fight you couldn’t win against any other nuclear power, relatively, you are one of the weakest mightest civs of all time.<
More like 50 years. Every since WW2 ended it's been USA and USSR neck and neck for #1 with no one (maybe China) close. Most powerful Civ in history.
>2) Its all relative, standard of living is hard to measure with any historical accuracy. Anyway, there are people in the States that live in conditions that would not look too out of place in the third world.<
That's why I did not say that USA is #1 in standard of living but they are high. This differentiates us from the USSR and the Ancient civs. Rome might have conquered more of the world, but where would you want to live USA right now, or in the Roman empire?? Technology aside.
>4) Oh please. Two achievements that aren’t even that good. The USSR got to space first which is better than the moon and the Chinese got gunpowder which is better than the bomb. Your real achievements are things like electric lighting and, um, the phonograph. Look at the Scots, we do TV, Penicillin, Malaria vaccine, Telephone etc. On top of that we do some genuinely good civilising things like the first public education policy and I wouldn’t say we come in the top ten.<
How about: the automobile, the airplane, the internet,
the first real computer, the telephone (Bell immigrated to the US before inventing it.), the binary circut, high resolution radar, I can go on.
Plus, our political freedom helps make it not even a close comparison with the Romans.
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JimH
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Over there!
Nov 1999
time: 05:12
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<>
[This message has been edited by JimH (edited January 25, 2001).]
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22-01-2001 01:28
for rome 
for end of work!
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