24-12-2002 23:26									#31
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Well you can always save up capital by living with your parents until you are thirty.

	24-12-2002 23:30									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Hmmm, property prices continually climbing above the rate of the increases in wage rates, making it nigh on impossible for people to secure a mortgage. Limited security meaning people can't feasibly make long term investments like this. That is what I mean. Now you just need to live in the real world a bit more to find out what it is really like...

All of which are the effect of governments getting involved in the market through means such as trade unions and other sorts of intervention. Whenever measures are taken to "even the playing field" it just makes things less competitive and you and I pay for it.

Although all in all the employment situation in most anglo countries (not being enthnocentric) is very good.

At least thats what I think.

	24-12-2002 23:35									#33
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo You should learn Latin in school if only just to understand English grammar better. I didn't understand the who/whom distinction until I learned some Latin.

And to boot, it's a universal language!

	24-12-2002 23:45									#34
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn All of which are the effect of governments getting involved in the market through means such as trade unions and other sorts of intervention. Whenever measures are taken to "even the playing field" it just makes things less competitive and you and I pay for it. Although all in all the employment situation in most anglo countries (not being enthnocentric) is very good. At least thats what I think.

Governments getting involved in the market through trade unions? Trade unions are not a part of the government But I suppose it is against the capitalist view of 'divide and conquer' their market. See, economics isn't as simple as throw everything together and they'll work it out, as society as a whole needs to function for the wellbeing of the people. Solidarity, that is what is needed.

And Stew, as you are well aware, I am actively seeking other work. My current income does not afford me enough money to live by myself and have any standard of living, and isn't it so easy to find a decent job in this so-called 'buoyant graduate job market'

	24-12-2002 23:57									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Governments getting involved in the market through trade unions? Trade unions are not a part of the government But I suppose it is against the capitalist view of 'divide and conquer' their market. See, economics isn't as simple as throw everything together and they'll work it out, as society as a whole needs to function for the wellbeing of the people. Solidarity, that is what is needed. And Stew, as you are well aware, I am actively seeking other work. My current income does not afford me enough money to live by myself and have any standard of living, and isn't it so easy to find a decent job in this so-called 'buoyant graduate job market'

True, but they have to be government sanctioned to do any good, and they end up serving the same purpose anyways, which is to restrict companies from being as competitve as they can be.

And I know economics isn't simple... I'm an economics major I used to be left wing like you, but once you start really looking and learning about how markets work, you realize that the right... is right. It just works better. Maximum levels of competition means a higher quality of life for all in the long run. History has demonstrated that.

Almost invariably you'll see that those countries with the least amount of government intervention (which I lump with ridiculous union standards... although some unions are good) will have the highest quality of life (which includes low unemployement and high wages and consumer choice) while more socialistic countries the quality of life for the average person declines.

Keep in mind I'm just pulling most of this off the top of my head, I'm not writing an essay.

	25-12-2002 00:03									#36
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And I come from Canada too, so I have a unique view of these kinds of things.

Canada and the USA are basically the same country, with a few differences... mainly, the Canadian government is much more involved in the economy with taxes and laws, etc...

You can really see the effects of this when you cross the border... the US has an infinitely more competitive market place than Canada, even when you take into account the population difference. Every Canadian business is owned by Hudson's Bay it seems, and the ones that aren't, are owned by American companies. Why? You tell me... We suffer for it too with higher prices, lower wages, higher taxes... and generally a lower overall quality of life and less opportunity.

All just MHO of course.

	25-12-2002 00:05									#37
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn True, but they have to be government sanctioned to do any good, and they end up serving the same purpose anyways, which is to restrict companies from being as competitve as they can be. And I know economics isn't simple... I'm an economics major I used to be left wing like you, but once you start really looking and learning about how markets work, you realize that the right... is right. It just works better. Maximum levels of competition means a higher quality of life for all in the long run. History has demonstrated that. Almost invariably you'll see that those countries with the least amount of government intervention (which I lump with ridiculous union standards... although some unions are good) will have the highest quality of life (which includes low unemployement and high wages and consumer choice) while more socialistic countries the quality of life for the average person declines.

Like Scandinavia?

	25-12-2002 00:21									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Like Scandinavia?

But their standard of living is kept high through excessive taxes and an extensive welfare benefits. Its like the whole country is living with their parents.

Plus, dealing with a small homogenous population is a little different than dealing with larger, more heterogenous ones like britain, canada and the US

	25-12-2002 03:11									#39
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I have an idea, lets use LATIN as the universal language, that avoids the nationocentric problems, since latin is a dead language. LATIN IS BAAAAAACK!

	25-12-2002 03:24									#40
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i wish i could live a life where it would be like living with my parents but the ability to smoke weed occasionally and not have to show them fake respect.

	25-12-2002 06:35									#41
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo You should learn Latin in school if only just to understand English grammar better. I didn't understand the who/whom distinction until I learned some Latin.

You don't need to - it's obsolescent.

	25-12-2002 07:06									#42
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I agree with Boddingtons point about one language, it would make things a lot simpler. Especially for the EU. We now have virtually free travel, a single currency, why not a single language? The problem is, why should it be English? I think the disasterous effect it would have on this generation, that do not speak English, would be enormous. I can imagine what it would be like if I had to speak French or German. I might get by, but I could never express myself like I can in my mother tongue.

How would it be enforced? With strict laws on what you can or can't speak? They tried that with weights and measures (from imperial to metric) and people still use imperial. Laws sem a little drastic, yet I don't see another way to do it?

A single language makes sense in the long term, but would be terrible in the short term, as people have to adjust.

	25-12-2002 07:11									#43
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quote: A single language makes sense in the long term, but would be terrible in the short term, as people have to adjust.

Thats why we need to work towards one slowly, which we already are. I would imagine that the amount of English speakers in the world increases expotentially every decade or so (although I have no stats to back this up).

Of course there are other languages like Chinese which I'm sure are growing too, but poor peasants don't really count.

	25-12-2002 07:13									#44
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quote: Like Scandinavia?

Since Sweden went from highly capitalist to more socialist their GDP growth has fallen, PH.

	25-12-2002 07:27									#45
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn Of course there are other languages like Chinese which I'm sure are growing too, but poor peasants don't really count.

Why the hell not?! Why do peasants not count? It's a bit of a sweeping generalisation to say that China is full of peasants. Especially considering it's one of the worlds economicall fastest growing nations. And more people speak Madarin than English IIRC, so it seems foolish to discount it.

	25-12-2002 07:31									#46
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"if you're somewhere where nobody in a 200 foot radius speaks english, you probably don't want to be there"

Are you referring to the Pentagon or to Wall Street? Those folk just don't speak good ol' Silicon Valley English.

	25-12-2002 07:34									#47
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Bah. There are 6000 languages, but most are small ones that are dying off all the time. We already are working toward a universal language (sadly).

	25-12-2002 07:43									#48
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huh? I thought I posted. Oh well

Bah. There are 6000 languages in the world, and more are dying every day. Eventually, we will come upon a universal language. But it won't be pretty.

EDIT: Oh...the last one wasn't there.

	25-12-2002 07:47									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Why the hell not?! Why do peasants not count? It's a bit of a sweeping generalisation to say that China is full of peasants. Especially considering it's one of the worlds economicall fastest growing nations. And more people speak Madarin than English IIRC, so it seems foolish to discount it.

I know it sounds horrible, but its true. Its not that they don't count as people, they're just not players in the global market. Business people speak English, and business makes the world go round... like it or not.

China is an economic power because it has over a billion people. And because they are going more and more free market all the time. If you put a billion and a half monkeys in a barrel, they'd be an economic power too. Nothing against the peasants, they just don't count for much because we never hear or see them and therefore never have to interact with them. They may as well be mute.

	25-12-2002 07:55									#50
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We don't see and hear them, but how (or why) would you go about stopping them speaking Mandarin or Cantonese between themselves? I think the shear logistics involved in enforcing all Chinese to speak English would make ti not worth it. The facilitires needed to teach all the world the English language would be immense.

I think we may end up like that, but I very much doubt in my lifetime.

	25-12-2002 08:01									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue We don't see and hear them, but how (or why) would you go about stopping them speaking Mandarin or Cantonese between themselves? I think the shear logistics involved in enforcing all Chinese to speak English would make ti not worth it. The facilitires needed to teach all the world the English language would be immense. I think we may end up like that, but I very much doubt in my lifetime.

No, no... I'm not saying we should MAKE them speak English. I'm not that much of a ***** I'm just saying if we HAVE to pick an international language, it should be English instead of Chinese because English is much more broadly used.

	25-12-2002 09:03									#52
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn Business people speak English, and business makes the world go round... like it or not.

Maybe in Canada but not in China. Have you seen all these foreigners trying to learn Madarin so they can work and do business there? Please, broaden your worldview a bit.

	25-12-2002 09:06									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's When multinationals move into an area to obtain cheaper labour, they inevitably raise the wage rate in the host country

According to which law in economics?

quote: Originally posted by Boddington's I reckon those jobs BT are providing in India are really coveted by employees; they will be far better jobs than they are used to. Better pay, better conditions, shorter working hours.

You know those call centres? The operators are trained to speak with a British (or US) accent. Why?

	25-12-2002 09:29									#54
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quote: According to which law in economics?

According to any law of economics .

Seriously, multinationals have to pay their workers just a tad bit more than what they would be getting at the jobs they currently work at, or else there would be no workers for the new factory of Nike (or whomever). The wage rate must be raised for a MNC to come in. Which law of economics? Supply and Demand, basically.

	25-12-2002 10:00									#55
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well it's easy to say that when you come from an English speaking country

But I'm sure more people speak chinese or spanish than English. Maybe we should conform to those languages.

	25-12-2002 10:03									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident well it's easy to say that when you come from an English speaking country But I'm sure more people speak chinese or spanish than English. Maybe we should conform to those languages.

Spanish, no.

Chinese, yes. Chinese is the most spoken language int he world.

	25-12-2002 10:08									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: According to which law in economics? According to any law of economics . Seriously, multinationals have to pay their workers just a tad bit more than what they would be getting at the jobs they currently work at, or else there would be no workers for the new factory of Nike (or whomever). The wage rate must be raised for a MNC to come in. Which law of economics? Supply and Demand, basically.

On the contrary, that is not necessarily the case. In many Third World coutnries working for an MNC is very often a status symbol, so there is no need to increase wages.

Yes it is Supply and Demand, but not in the way you think.

	25-12-2002 10:09									#58
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Chinese just isn't practical in the written form. Spanish is much easier to learn.

If anything Spanish should be the official language.

	25-12-2002 10:33									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident Chinese just isn't practical in the written form. Spanish is much easier to learn. If anything Spanish should be the official language.

Chinese isn't practical in written form....?

	25-12-2002 10:55									#60
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Beats me too