10-01-2003 02:52									#31
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My favorite bidding story is from when Ming and I used to play in tournaments. Anytime you bid, it's your opponents right, if they are unclear of your bid, to ask your partner what your bid meant. We were playing a hand where I had opened 1nt that our bidding system didn't account for a reason I can't remember. After a few rounds of bidding with interference, Ming paused and made a bid of three no trump and from what everyone else had bid, it made no sense. My right handed opponent turned to me and said, what does that bid mean. I responded with "I don't have a ****ing clue".

Needless to say "Mr director" was summoned to our table. After some discussion the Director determined that to be fair to all, Ming would have to explain his bid to our opponents. Since I had no idea what it meant, I didn't object. Ming looked at our opponent and said," we're obviously in over our head on this hand, and if we get the bid at 3nt, my brother will have to play the hand and not me, so 3nt in this case is a sign off bid." After our opponents stopped laughing they doubled and it was passed out.

After the opening lead ming layed down the dummy and after a few minutes of consideration, I promptly made 3nt doubled for a top board. One other team had made 3nt but everyone else had been in 4 spades down one, or making an overtrick on a partscore. Needless to say our opponents were considerably pissed, but it was their own fault for asking what the bid meant, without it, I probably would have run into a suit on the double and been set like the others.

RAH

	10-01-2003 04:10									#32
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great story. You can have a glass of red wine with your steak...

	10-01-2003 04:27									#33
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small funny story. had about 16 points. strong spade suit. and 2 clubs. (can't remember entire hand).

Bidding went like this:

opp: 1h
Me:1sp
opp:2h
partner: 3clubs
opp: pass
Me: 3nt

Partner layed down dummy and had 4hcp and very long clubs.


His comment: partner, what does 3nt mean?

My comment: Game.

His commednt: I bid with 4 points!

My comment: Yes...you did.

opponents: LOL

Last edited by TCO on 10-01-2003 at 04:40

	10-01-2003 08:27									#34
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quote: Originally posted by GP what I mean is people who bid 1d and than when I reply 1h or 1sp, they get mad if my hand does not contain a 5cm. I thouht the whole idea of "best minor" was to show your 4 card majors even if weak ones.

Hm, a 5 card suit is generally what is expected if you respond like that, unless you have a talk with your partner beforehand. Still, it is much easier to decribe your hand if you first make a negative/denial bid (either NT or the other minor) then switch to your major. In this case your partner will definitely know you have no 5 card majors, which makes life easier.

When your partner bid a minor, you definitely will have at least a 3 card minor in the other one, a 5 card major, or a 5 card support for his suit. So you pretty much can't go wrong with that.

	10-01-2003 08:36									#35
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quote: Originally posted by rah And yes, those computer rigged deals were said to be computer random deals but it didn't take us long to figure out that human stacking had to be part of it. But what made them even more fun was that after the tournament, you'd get a booklet that explained every hand and what the expectations were. Since they were rigged, they had a propensity to encourage 3nt bids over 4 in a major (the extra 10 points back then usually made the difference between a top and average board). My playing skills were honed best on 3nt contracts so we had an extra advantage.

They changed it a bit then. The sectionals etc. we went to tended to have weird hands that looked good but unmakable, partial contracts, or major games. The weird hands were ones you thought you could make slams but of course they just stacked it a bit against you so you couldn't make slam but could make a fifth level contract, something like that.

I remembered this one hand when we defended against a 6H contract, and my partner led the queen of hearts. I thought he went crazy, but it turned out that it was the only way to defeat the contract. The funny thing was he thought the trump suit was something else for a second, so he led off with a high-low in a doubleton.

	10-01-2003 09:43									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Hm, a 5 card suit is generally what is expected if you respond like that, unless you have a talk with your partner beforehand. Still, it is much easier to decribe your hand if you first make a negative/denial bid (either NT or the other minor) then switch to your major. In this case your partner will definitely know you have no 5 card majors, which makes life easier. When your partner bid a minor, you definitely will have at least a 3 card minor in the other one, a 5 card major, or a 5 card support for his suit. So you pretty much can't go wrong with that.

Bullshit! How do you get a 4-4 fit! The whole purpose of using the best minor is to allow showing 4 card majors. To look for the 4-4 fit.

	10-01-2003 12:17									#37
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Easily.

Suppose you have 3 spades, 4 hearts, 2 diamonds and 4 clubs with 13HCP. Your partner has 4 spades, 4 hearts, 4 diamonds and 1 club.

So the bidding can go 1C-2D-2H-4H. Something like that.

	10-01-2003 18:37									#38
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In that hand, For ming and I, the opening bid would have been a short club bid. With no 5 card suit the reponse bid would have been a straight point count bid. Assuming no interference.
<6 1d
6-9 1nt
9-12 2nt
13+ 3nt

As you can see our bidding encouraged 3nt bids over 4 of a major with 4-4 or 4-3 trump splits. We just felt more comfortable with that. Personal preference. And it gave oppenents less info for their opening lead. You could then really count on 4th from longest and strongest instead of a possible attack against the last or unheard suit bid.

The only way our bidding system allowed us to get to game in major with a 4-4 or 4-3 split was after a 1nt opening bid or on an opening double.

But that's the fun of bridge, everyone has their own preferences. Think of all the specialty bids/conventions.

RAH

	10-01-2003 19:05									#39
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GP, one more question on Pogo. Do you think anybody uses instant messaging to cheat?

	10-01-2003 21:19									#40
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quote: Originally posted by rah GP, one more question on Pogo. Do you think anybody uses instant messaging to cheat?

There are a few cheats. But really pretty few. Not enough to bring the fun of the game down.

There are other ways to cheat. Using the phone. Making occasional table talk remarks in the open discussion. Double computers. And occasioanlly a staller. I really wouldn't sweat it though.

	11-01-2003 01:37									#41
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Do you try to play with the same people?

Are there usually a lot of players around?

Are they chaneyheads?

How long are your sessions?

RAH
And why do you love 4-4 trump splits so much?

	11-01-2003 08:08									#42
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Stallers are people who just sit there forever? Are there any forums or other channels to file complaints?

	11-01-2003 23:50									#43
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no one answered my question as to an online/sp version of bridge?

this sounds interesting, i remember spades, i have played that before..

	12-01-2003 00:11									#44
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quote: Originally posted by rah Do you try to play with the same people? Are there usually a lot of players around? Are they chaneyheads? How long are your sessions? RAH And why do you love 4-4 trump splits so much?

Usually with different people, but you can check profiles to see if compatible. And there is a locate friends feature to see if others are on the site that you know.

There are always plent of players. Never a problem getting a game.

Some people are jerks. you know how bridge can be if your partner messes up. But there is some decent chat too. It's not too bad.

Sessions vary. At pogo, you play a rubber. people play fast, but it can get a bit held up with sacrafice bids and the like. Usually under an hour...but if you start sitting down again, it can go long. Easy to get that one more turn thing going. Watch a few hands, you'll see.

It's not that I'm crazy about 4-4 fits, it's that neophyte players who feel undcomfortable with one are in error. Goren has a good section where he explains why a 4-4 fit is better than a 5-3 fit. (It has to do with the chance of getting a 5-3 fit in a side suit which can be set up or generate ruffs.) I don't think it is a big deal, though. It's just if you ar avoiding 4-4 fits, that will hurt you. You will end up missing a lot of makeable major suit games and end up in partials or in 3nt and having a harder time when you could have been in an 8 trump major.

	12-01-2003 00:13									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Stallers are people who just sit there forever? Are there any forums or other channels to file complaints?

Yes. You can boot them, provided all 3 others agree. The occasional staller is not such a big deal. I haven't seen one in weeks. And of course, you avoid ever playing with such a person again.

Just go check out the site. It is easy. You can watch a few hands to get a feel for it.

	12-01-2003 00:14									#46
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quote: Originally posted by War4ever no one answered my question as to an online/sp version of bridge? this sounds interesting, i remember spades, i have played that before..

You can play online/sp at pogo. But the game is nowhere near as fun. Puters don't play like humans.

They have spades at pogo also.

	12-01-2003 05:17									#47
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I don't hate 4-4 splits but I'm not a big fan. In duplicate, the extra 10 points for NT won us quite a few top boards, so we tailored our bidding system to slant towards it.
But for the record, I DO prefer a 5-3 over 4-4 despite what Goren says. Sheinwold and Omar agree with me on that one.

Last edited by rah on 12-01-2003 at 08:55

	12-01-2003 09:37									#48
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I don't hate 4-4 splits either, it's just 5-3 ones are better for trump control.

	12-01-2003 09:53									#49
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quote: Originally posted by GP You can play online/sp at pogo. But the game is nowhere near as fun. Puters don't play like humans. They have spades at pogo also.

thanks

	12-01-2003 13:24									#50
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1. 5-3 is better for wusses.

2. Rah, 4sp or 4h is 20 points more than 3nt.

	12-01-2003 14:39									#51
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not if you make 10 tricks,

	12-01-2003 15:12									#52
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quote: Originally posted by rah not if you make 10 tricks,

Being in a trump contract with 8 trumps is usually good for an extra trick or two. You need more hcp to make a nt contract than a suit one.

I was teasing about the wuss comment. But regardless of wether you think a 4-4 is better or a 5-3, if you AVOID 4-4s and go to nt instead, you will miss a lot of major suit contracts that would help you.

	13-01-2003 05:52									#53
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In contract bridge and swiss team, I would agree with you (in swiss team the 10 extra points doesn't count)
BUT in duplicate, we got more top boards by that extra 10 points than we lost by not being in a major. But yes you can be burned by it, but I consider it a good risk, and for me, experience has validated my opinion.

Have you played any duplicate?

I usually play duplicate because it's more of a true judge of playing skill since the luck of the deal is removed. The last time I played rubber bridge, I had all the cards all night and kicked their butts. Skill had nothing to do with it.

	13-01-2003 07:13									#54
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No. I like the more free-form element. And like the building of the scoresheet. two partials adding to a game, etc.

	13-01-2003 09:15									#55
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I also like duplicates more. You can't play duplicates online though, at least not very easily. You should try it some time at a local bridge centre. It is definitely very different.

Swiss teams are also nice, but you do need more dedicated players.

	13-01-2003 16:04									#56
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Bridge is an old passion of mine, haven't played in a while ...

My favourite hand online was something like this:

Question: How do YOU play Qxxx in dummy opposite Jx to take 1 trick? Answer probably not like this....

My hand was x Jx x AKQxxxxxx (forget what the 9 clubs were exactly but they were solid including AK)

Bidding: RHO 1S, Me 5C, LHO double all pass.

Spade was led, and dummy was something like Axx Qxxx xxxx xx. Opponents had the points, but WE had the distribution. Muhahaha.

It's obvious I'm cold for 10 tricks, and I could have played meekly for 1 down, but with nothing to lose I decided to cook up a bit of fiction in the heart suit. If I could make the defenders believe that the Queen on the table was my only heart honor, I could score an extra trick if I could make the Ace and King fall on the same trick.

I won the lead in dummy, crossed to hand with a trump and ran all the trumps except one. During the running of the trumps, I had to make a lot of discards, so I discarded from the hearts first, leaving the Queen bare in dummy.

On the 10th trick, I led the small heart to the Queen. The trick went small, King, Queen, Ace. Mission accomplished, my Jack was now high, I still had a trump left, and I made 5CX for 96%.

	13-01-2003 21:05									#57
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I don't understand why the ace would come down unless it is a singleton. You didn't have any more trump cards on board, so it didn't matter if you are out of that suit or not there.

What was the first lead? It sounded like spade. Spade was the wrong suit to lead. Either one of the red suits would have set you.

	13-01-2003 21:24									#58
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I haven't been able to play bridge at Pogo. I tried IE, and the Java virtual machine bombed out. I tired Mozilla, and it got to "loading room" before it stopped doing anything.

Bah.

	13-01-2003 23:22									#59
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It loads fine for me and everybody. You have to wait a little bit especially if on a dialup.

I have IE.

	14-01-2003 00:56									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger I don't understand why the ace would come down unless it is a singleton. You didn't have any more trump cards on board, so it didn't matter if you are out of that suit or not there.

During his trump run, his opponents sluffed all their hearts down to one each, One had the king, and the other the ace, so when he leads the low heart from his hand, both honors fell. Making his remaining jack good since any return, he could trump with his last trump. Seems quite simple.

Sometimes you have no choice but to give your opponents a chance to shoot themselves. It doesn't work that often, but when it does.........

RAH