28-10-2000 01:57									#1
	Pirates in MP Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

So I've been lurking in this forum a long time without anything to say or ask. But now that I'm playing my first MP game, I have some questions. I also have a knawing feeling in my gut that my opponents might soon be on to me and my empire will come crashing down. Much more tense playing MP than SP.

Though I think I have this game in hand, I would like to play against some better foes, and I know that playing the way I am now, I'd get my clock cleaned.

I'm playing the Pirates, doing well, only Marr is ahead of me, and won't be for long. But as I look at my empire I feel insecure, vulnerable. The only thing preventing me from getting knocked down a peg or three is the blind pacifism of my opponents. I have done everything I could to keep my map out of the hands of everyone, but once someone had me infiltrated, it wouldn't take much to collect some of my bases.

Free market plays into this as I am forced to leave my non-probe ships in port, unless obviously threatened. Once I have a punishment sphere and a good airforce it becomes less of an issue, but playing blind research... what can you do? (Does playing blind research benefit/harm some factions more than others?)

So this is what I'm wondering: do you all find that the Pirates need more defensive units in early mid game than other factions? How do you attack the Pirates in MP? How do you play pirates in MP?

One more thing, I find that with the Pirates, my early and mid game Secret Projects wind up clustered much closer together than with a land-based faction. I don't usually have many bases with minerals above ten during first round of project building.

Anyways... any help/advice/reflections you all can give me would be appreciated

	28-10-2000 04:07									#2
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Hi Jiwabursting

Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm playing the Pirates in two MP games at the moment in the tourny here at Apolyton. I find them extremely tough, although I know other people love them ...

My experience is limited, so take this with a pinch of salt

Assuming that most of your bases are sea bases (?) I think that the Pirates are actually less at risk than other factions. Certainly before the discovery of air power, and possibly for some time after that. Unless you're in a 2-player game, players looking for a conquest victory will want to move fast against easy targets. Now, a force of infantry/rovers can move against most opponents, who tend to have land bases. To take you, a specialist force is required, one that probably won't be much use for taking others. So logic suggests that you won't be their first target? They won't be able to afford two armies in the early-mid game.

I can think of some exceptions to this - perhaps if they have the WP, and if your bases are clustered close to land, then a land bridge would be a practical approach to conquering you.

I know what you mean though. The Pirates are unsettling to play. They have poor efficiency and poor growth. I don't feel comfortable with them in either of my games.

I've heard other people who play them regularly say that the strength of the pirates is getting your ships out there (probe foils if you have FM I guess) contacting AI factions and exchanging techs, exploring and locating the very best areas of the map, especially the Monsoon Jungle. If you can locate these before other human players, you can have a strong position.

Do you usually play builder or momentum style? Or a bit of both?

	28-10-2000 08:10									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I haven't played MP, but the way you play the Pirates really depends on map size. The nice thing is that they're a versatile faction, so if you have a small map you can strike quickly, and if you have a big map, you can go builder style. If I were playing the Pirates in Mp, I would probably beef up my garrisons against the air strike for a couple of reasons:

1. Air units are cheap, and they can be used on land or sea. If I'm a land based faction, I don't want to wait to build a big navy to go after them, and I don't want to pay for it either.

2. Air attacks are considerably safer than other means. Being a land based faction, I have already conceded the sea to the Pirates, and should assume that they have a BIG navy. This allows them to nail my troops while still on sea transports, and to put my navy on the run.

3. When I go after the Pirates by sea, I am fighting them on their own turf, which means that I have put myself at a disadvantage. They have the better maps, and all of their advantages lie at sea. This allows them to hit me with more harder, even if the tech advantage is with me.

4. Air units don't have to sit open to attack after they attack.

If I were attacking with the Pirates, here are a few things I would try to achieve:

1. Go after sea bases first. You're better at sea, and taking those sea bases might just convince your opponent to think twice about coming after you. Next, go for the coastal bases. These represent a large threat to you since they're the base of your opponent's naval power.

2. Use your naval advantage to outflank your opponent. Land marines at the back to split his/her forces and surprise them a bit.

3. It never hurts to do something unexpected.

4. Naval power is important, and you have the advantage there. Air power, however, is king. If you have it, use it in conjunction with you naval artillery to first weaken and then destroy enemy units at minimum cost to you. Don't forget to defend against it either. IMO the Pirates are most vulnerable to air power.

5. If you find yourself overmatched when the fighting breaks out, be bold go for quick strikes against several bases. Use your sea power to quickly move units from base to base, and use rovers to get more mobility. Show your opponent your best and make them think you have more and better than you do, and try to convince them to pledge truce.

You can also use the SE table to help you out in combat since the Pirates aren't bound to any particular setting. Sorry if this wasn't what you were looking for.

	28-10-2000 08:14									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Sorry, I forgot to mention that IMO, blind research sucks for all except the progenitors, who don't have to suffer from it. In response to your question, I think that it affects the human factions with research penalties the worst, since they can't pick and choose the most vital techs that they need. It obviously doesn't affect the Progenitors at all.

	29-10-2000 06:26									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Well, I don't much care for blind research either. But if you're looking for a challenging game, blind research really puts the spoke in your beelines, giving the AI a chance.

A number of posters here play "double-blind" research - ie blind research plus all options (explore, build, discover/conquer) checked (or none). They do this because they find that it's more challenging, and there's no doubt that this is true.

	29-10-2000 07:06									#6
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I don't doubt that it's more challenging, I just like to have the kind of control over my research that allows me to get out of a fix. In classic, I used to play blind research all the time (i.e. until one day I decided to tinker with the rules a bit, which took me way to long to figure out how to do, sadly enough). Double blind sounds like an interesting twist to add though. I'll have to try it some time.

	29-10-2000 07:19									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Players like RedFred would definitely recommend it

But he's a masochist - random faction/double blind games.

	29-10-2000 07:25									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

Re Blind Research (and most of you prolly know this already, but I just "discovered" it today when reading the gameguide on the loo)

You can switch in mid research stream without penalty (versus forfeiting 1/2 your accumulated points in directed research when you change)

How could I have missed that for the 18 months the game has been out?

G.

	29-10-2000 10:49									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

LOL, Misotu. But I don't really think that I am a whips and chains kind of guy compared to Black Sunrise. I see in another thread that he has broken through the 500 cities barrier. Now that is dedication!

I also admit to not really being a MP kind of guy, but have a couple of thoughts on your plight, jiwa. Obvious ones, perhaps. Make sure your core sea cities that were founded early in the game are well surrounded by primarily weapons-producing cities. Try to establish yourself early on at least one nice big chunk of land. You'll be helped by some high mineral production that only land is so good at.

And while you run FM there is the danger of green units. Not that you will have a negative morale modifier with FM, just that you aren't out there duking it out and raising your experience levels of your troops. So there is a greater necessity of keeping your troops upgraded to a good tech level.
[This message has been edited by RedFred (edited October 29, 2000).]

	29-10-2000 20:15									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Just another thought for you Jiwa. One tech that I love to go for, particularly for the Pirates, is Bio-Engineering. In addition to having to have land units to go after the other factions, the Pirates need a large navy to defend their holdings at sea. Minerals tend to be more precious at sea, particularly in early game for the Pirates, so having clean units, even though they will cost more than a normal unit, will go a long way to helping with support problems, especially if you want to run dem. There are always other solutions though.