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Static Universe
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If that floats your boat, you should check out Nixon's The Real War or Beyond Peace. Surprisingly well written and entertaining.
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Static Universe
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quote:
Originally posted by Joseph
OK I will bite. What has Henry does that is so evil? |
Check these links:
http://www.zpub.com/un/wanted-hkiss.html
"Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac. "
Henry A. Kissinger
Last edited by Static Universe on 27-12-2002 at 07:08
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Joseph
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Ca. USA
Feb 2000
time: 21:24
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quote:
The case for Henry K. as murder conspirator is what Hitchens calls a "lay-down" case, i.e., one that stands out for its clear facts and clear law. The murder victim is General Rene Schneider, who was the Commander in Chief of the Chilean Army, whom Hitchens misidentifies as the Chilean "Chief of Staff."; According to Hitchens (and the 09 September 1970 minutes of the "40" Committee, the Kissinger chaired secret panel that oversaw US covert operations), the Chilean military had a strong tradition of neutrality in political affairs, a rarity on the South American continent. General Schneider was known as an officer committed to upholding the Chilean constitution and therefore opposed to the rumored incipient coup against newly elected Socialist President Salvador Allende by a right wing would-be junta of current and former Chilean military officers. Using US Government communications cables from the CIA and documents from the State Department, and White House, Hitchens relates the facts of Kissinger direct involvement in the direction, planning, financing, and general support by the organs of the US Government in the plot to remove General Schneider. |
I don't know anything about the General being killed. But I do remember the new government in Chile being overthrown by anti-Communist element. And yes I do know that the American CIA was very much involved.
If I remember correctly, the US Gov. was concerned about another country becoming a Communist country. Whether you agree or not there are some in the US who have by action or otherwise stated that there will not be another communist country in the America's as long as they are around.
I don't why but the younger generation don't have the same views about communist that my generation and older have about communism.
Getting back to the General. In that timeframe if the general was in the way of replacing the Government then he would have to go. It was that simple in the 70's. I was 26 in 70 and very much an anti-Communist.
I have said this many times on Apolyton threads, it is easy for the youth of today to look back at our country, or other countries and their leaders and say No Way, that was wrong. But until you have lived that time period, it is hard for you to really know what was happening in this country or any other countries and why thing happen the way they did.
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Rufus T. Firefly
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is one way of saying it, though I prefer "mensch"
Sep 2000
time: 07:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
[q]Just because someone has done some shady things doesn't mean you can't respect his opinions! Martin Luther King, Jr. was a womanizer, but he had some really good things to say, man! |
Yeah, but MLK wasn't giving advice on monogamy, now was he? 
On the other hand, I'd be happy to take Kissinger's advice on how to be a fat, unattractive, old, boring intellectual and still **** beautiful babes. 
Edit: The filter caught "s h a g"? That seems a bit puritanical! Did you guys hire my Aunt Irene or something? 
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Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:24
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Joseph - quote:
If I remember correctly, the US Gov. was concerned about another country becoming a Communist country. |
Democratically elected and socialist.
quote:
Whether you agree or not there are some in the US who have by action or otherwise stated that there will not be another communist country in the America's as long as they are around. |
These people own the hemisphere?
quote:
I don't why but the younger generation don't have the same views about communist that my generation and older have about communism. |
I'm 43 and have no love for communism, but I don't defend murder either.
quote:
Getting back to the General. In that timeframe if the general was in the way of replacing the Government then he would have to go. |
Murder is acceptable? Then I suppose you'd defend Osama bin Laden or is murder only acceptable when the US murders people?
quote:
I have said this many times on Apolyton threads, it is easy for the youth of today to look back at our country, or other countries and their leaders and say No Way, that was wrong. But until you have lived that time period, it is hard for you to really know what was happening in this country or any other countries and why thing happen the way they did. |
It's not about young or old, it's about morality and immorality. And Kissinger's involvement with the slaughter of untold numbers in Chile is just one of his crimes. There's the not-so-secret bombing of Cambodia that led to the Khmer reign of terror and his complicity in Cyprus. I suggest you read Hitchin's book, Kissinger can't even leave the country without consulting with lawyers because of the possibility he'd be arrested and extradicted for his crimes.
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Static Universe
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And East Timor and Viet Nam...
And even the United States, if he really was involved in the extended series of criminal and undemocratic acts we refer to as Watergate, and evidence suggests he was.
If he really undermined the Viet Nam peace conference before the 68 elections, and evidence suggests he did, that's not only illegal and unconstitutional, it's treason.
He arranged to have all of his public papers from government service sealed in the Library of Congress, and the courts have OK'ed this, so that he can't be effectively investigated until after his death.
The man can't even go into most Third World countries for fear of imprisonment or assassination.
Here's an interesting Kissinger quote from a Bilderberger conference in 92:
"Today Americans would be outraged if UN troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful. This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will pledge with world leaders to deliver them from evil. The one thing every man fears is the 'unknown'. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by their world government."
Here he is telling the European power elite how to establish military control over an American city with a threat that doesn't even exist.
That's the man Bush wanted to investigate 9-11. The argument could certainly be made that Kissinger-style secret diplomacy led to 9-11 in the first place, no matter if you believe Osama did it or subscribe to any degree of conspiracy theory.
I happen to agree that he's a great stateman, but he went too far, and history seems to judging him this way. His biggest concern seems to be holding off any investigation of his actions until he croaks from old age, so that his crimes, and they are crimes, will always have a queston mark after them in the history books.
Why do you think he backed off the 9-11 commission? It isn't just his client list, which I'm sure is full of interesting names. It's the fact that if he answers one question, he thinks he'll probably be expected to answer two. Answering questions is something he afford to do.
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Static Universe
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Yeah, he was Machiavellian, but the question posed is 'so?'. Like joseph said, it is easy to look back and pose questions. What about when you were there? |
The 'so' here is that Kissinger's disastrous foreign policy decisions in Loas, Cambodia and Viet Nam made the people in the countries hate us so much that they wound up going Communist anyway, and there was nothing we could do about it. His failures set the dominoes in motion.
If Kissinger hadn't sabotaged the peace talks in 68, who knows, South Viet Nam might be free today. If he hadn't authorized wholesale slaughter in Cambodia and Loas, those countries might be free today. I don't even want to get into East Timor and Chile.
It's much easier for you to say 'oh, you weren't there, he was fighting communism, he made the best decisions he could, you can't judge.' That's a total cop-out. Kissingers actions gave more power to the communist movement than it ever took from them, in terms of propoganda all over the third world. We're still dealing with it today, and it represents an enormous threat to our security. If history is to mean anything, we must judge him.
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27-12-2002 05:57
ACK!
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