27-12-2002 18:30									#1
	[DOSE] [UNOFFICIAL] Economics and Values - Survey Got spare money?

I haven't been able to do much as DOSE during this term due to the unforseen circumstances IRL, but perhaps at the ending of my term I can at least do something to help the next DOSE, no matter if he be Pan or myself.

For the first section of the survey, I'd like to know your opinions on the Peacekeeping Economy, and which of the three doctrines, Free Market, Planned and Green, it should eventually adopt (As well as reasons for adopting other doctrines in the meanwhile if such is your plan). I'd also like your reasons for these, split up into reasons based on game mechanics, and those based on RP. If you have game mechanics justifications for RP arguements or vice versa, please make sure you include those.

For the second section, I'd like to know your opinions on Peacekeeping Values, and which of the three systems, Power, Knowledge and Wealth, it should eventually adopt (As well as reasons for adopting other systems in the meanwhile if such is your plan, just as before). Again, I'd also like your reasons for these, split up into reasons based on game mechanics, and those based on RP, and again If you have game mechanics justifications for RP arguements or vice versa, please make sure you include those and highlight them or something.

Thank you for your time. This survey will continue for 3 days time.

EDIT: Please note, this is NOT a topic for debates to be held in, just for people to air their opinions (Something most people don't generally do simply for the fear of debate). The points can be brought up in debate later, after the election and survey are complete.

EDIT 2: It would be appreciated if people actually voiced proper structured arguements for their position if possible, preferably paragraphs in length. The first reply you saw here, mearly 1 sentence in length with no justifications for the reasons, is exactly what we do *NOT* want to see.

Last edited by Archaic on 27-12-2002 at 18:38

	27-12-2002 18:34									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Voted planned/green and knowledge. A planification of our economy and industry according to Planet's will.

	27-12-2002 21:44									#3
	Remove this text

Likewise, Planned/Green and Knowledge. Planned now, Green in 30 years of so, to take advantage of the efficiency, and Knowledge now and forever

	28-12-2002 03:20									#4
	Tired of ads?

Planned/Green: Planned for now, as long as most of the bases will benefit from pop-boom (CC provided). It would be best to pop-boom until limits are reached, but due to inefficiency we will possibly have to switch to Green faster.

Wealth + GA: benefits as from FM, further increases industry benefit. As for Knowledge... well, we should get HSA first. I know that AI almost doesn't probe, but.. RP is RP.

	28-12-2002 05:37									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Edited at Archaic's request:

Economics:
FM: You know the drill. Huge boost to energy production allows for more rushbuying, faster tech advancment, and a higher PSych rating (which takes care of the Drone problems). ED isn't much of a problem either, as it is inherently self-limiting, and even mroe so under FM.

Values:
Wealth: Increased indutry allows for faster builds, and a higher economy rating allows for more moeny (see above, though to a lesser extent). Combined with FM + GA, it produces an enormous amount of money. The Morale penalty is a problem, and conventional wars would be best fought without it, but monoliths and a few easy victories should take care of the worst.

Knowledge: Increased efficiency and faster research are quite helpful, especially for us; we would be better off fighting long-drawn-out wars using Knowledge rather than Wealth, due to Wealth's Morale penalty.

Last edited by GeneralTacticus on 28-12-2002 at 06:51

	28-12-2002 06:20									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

This is a bit of a nonsense poll. First, because it is unofficial and secondly the incoming Dir is not bound by the outcome.

	28-12-2002 06:37									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

But the Incoming Dr. posted his will
Planned &Knowledge until either Cloning Vats or Hydro's

	28-12-2002 10:48									#8
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Hercules This is a bit of a nonsense poll. First, because it is unofficial and secondly the incoming Dir is not bound by the outcome.

Then don't reply to it. This poll is here so that I or Pan can properly assess the will of the electorate, and so that everyones reasons for their positions can be brought out into the open.

Hopefully I'll have time to make a complete post later today. It'd be a long 'un.

	28-12-2002 11:31									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Alright, here goes.

Economics:

Free Market:
RP: Inheriently gives the people more freedom and choice in their day to day lives than any other economy, encourages trade and exchange of culture between the factions. Market forces encourage producers to create new, more efficient, more environmentally friendly products, sooner than they would be able to under other systems.
Game Mechanics: Like GT said, you know the drill. The huge boost to energy production allows for more (And more efficient) rushbuying, faster tech advancment, and a higher Psych rating (taking care of the Drone problems caused by -5 Police, and even allowing for GA's thanks to the sheer amount of Psych spending alotted in FM even under 10~20% Psych.). ED, being even more self-limiting under FM than normal, ceases to be a problem in the long term.

Planned:
RP: Would be acceptable for short term "Baby Booms", however it would not be wise to stay under this inefficient system for long, both for that inefficiency (Increasing B-Drones), and for the decrease in basic economic freedoms for our citizens.
Game Mechanics: As stated above, the inefficienct system created B-Drones, a serious problem for us with our ICS outlook and standard -1 Efficiency Penalty, making it impossible to go GA in all bases with them. Industry bonus is nice, but our needs are better served by FM's cashflow. About the only saving grace is the growth, necessary under SMAC for Pop Boom. Only in the situations where we can take advantage of that Pop Boom would this be the preferred system, and at the end of it we should of course switch back to FM

Green:
RP: Most efficient economy possible, though it can often produce less than FM even after taking into account FM's excesses (ie. Overproduction - Excess = Still higher than Green). Planet may like us more in the short term, but will short sighted appeazement mean that we can't immunize it to our future production levels?
Game Mechanics: Planet bonuses are nice except where you *NEED* eco damage for Pops, like we do now, and will for a long time. The most important factor long term is the Efficiency Bonus, very helpful with our long term ICS position. The Jury is out on if this can GA easier than FM, however in our current position FM easily takes the cake, both due to the unwanted Growth Penalty and the fact we don't have enough bases to make it worthwhile yet. This is an option not viable for many many years, by which point the game should be over anyway.


Values:

Wealth:
RP: Further encouragement of materialistic values increases the opportunities for trade and culture exchange, both from imports and exports from firms set up to meet the increasing demand of consumers. While citizens lose confidence in fighting a war (Bad for business), they become more stalwart when it comes to protecting their homes and children in those bases with CC's.
Game Mechanics: Increased industry allows for faster builds, and a higher economy rating allows for more cash flow (see FM above, though to a lesser extent). Combined with FM + GA, it produces massive cash flows and commerce, allowing for even quicker production than Planned + Wealth from the increased ability and flexability to rush. Morale penalties on offence can be easily countered, and garrison troops become even better than they would be normally in the presence of CC's. Bases liberated from the Hive, et. al. can be defended easier if those can be built (Dare I say, rushed?) quickly.

Knowledge:
Game Mechanics: Slightly easier to go Golden Age with the increased efficiency, however this would require FM simply to produce the cashflow needed for Psych spending. Research boost is nice, however often this is eclipsed by the research provided through the FM+Wealth+GA cash flow. A second choice option, for periods of long war far from our soil.

	03-01-2003 08:21									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Too late again, but just wanted to put forward my POV once again. FM and Wealth, switching to Knowledge if we were to actually attack anyone. We can deal with an attack on us with the Morale penalty with Creches.

	03-01-2003 20:09									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

New poll for Se will be done right after the turn chat.