18-10-2000 00:47									#1
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It seams that most everyone plays a style that requires a move to 1st place as quickly as posible, then maintain that position for the remainer of the game. Now in the random games I use to play, the situation could be so against me that these strats wouldn't work for me, so I started thinking about strats that sought a weaker (appearing) position during the game with a big cashout of some sort to Slingshot to a victory.

I figured that between the techshare and the probes, that the Data Angles would be best for this type of game. Has anyone else thought along the same lines? If so what did you come up with, and what problems arose form your strats?

I have not played SMAX in months, since I am heavily involved in other games/activities, so I am limited to just thinking about these things and not testing them in actual play.

	19-10-2000 19:39									#2
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The idea of a slingshot victory would in theory be similar to the OCC method in CIV. Essentially since you are very small other civs/factions leave you alone. This permits tech sharing, a lot of trade/ commerce sothat you can win the tech race
to AC/transendance. While OCC is huge in the CIV 2 world I haven't seen much mention of it in SMAC. Are people trying OCC and how does it go? I would think that keeping the peace would be more difficult than in CIV if you used any SE settings that matched other factions aversions.

In more general terms it seems that most of the best winning strategies involve being big so that you can out tech and out produce your rivals. However a strategy using massive amounts of crawlers could mean that you have massive energy/nuts/ minerals with relatively few cities and not a huge territory or population. In that case you would be much stronger than many of the powergraph indicators might show, making a slingshot possible. If the AI doesn't see you as a theat perhaps longer pacts and treaties (with the commerce benefits that accrue) might be possible.

My question is how far do you want to slingshot?? If you stand 3rd or worse in the faction standings you are precluded from the governors position (with all its advantages).

cbn

	19-10-2000 19:57									#3
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Biggest problem I had was, the AI wasn't as stoopid (sic) as expected: it had enough probe teams to make this difficult by dropping probes, and enough navy to kill my transports. I suspect the XenoDome would help by giving your probes a mobility edge. I don't recall their air force doing anything.

But yeah, if you got the tech for transcendance, it should be easy to beat the artificial idiots to building the Ascent.

At the time I hadn't considered founding, then gifting the AI a base near me for the express purpose of looting it for tech.

	23-10-2000 23:34									#4
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OK, I'm officially keen for this idea, and when I get my lap top this week, I will start playing again. Here is what I have come up with so far, any advice or criticism is welcomed.

Thinking only for the Data Angels, the first beeline will have to be Centauri Empathy for the SP Empath Guild which will accomplish several things at once. Formers will be available in the first step and I'll be in the race for the Weather Paradigm. Recycling Centers are along this path as well and likely my second step. While I'm are preparing for SP builds in two or three cities at once, I can have the basic structures/units in place to carry me while building. Also I'm not going to be afraid to jump to Planned and or Wealth to reduce the cost of the SP's and maybe even rush.

Whatever it takes, I'm going to get the Empath Guild. Even if I have to sacrifice any and all available materials to get it. Once built it will give me infiltration into all the factions, and my TechShare will now be in effect. This is a double edged sword since my research will be slowed as I gain techs not on my beelines, but since I am playing for 3rd place, this is ok. Since I have played blind research before, I can adjust and this give the AI more of an advantage therefore increasing my chances of not being in first.

Working from memory, I believe that EG also gives you +50% votes for PG. If this is the case, then it should be no problem to sit in 3rd place and still get my name on the ballot. Also a hidden advantage is I now control when the first election will be held, giving me the opportunity to stuff the ballot box with my population and/or buy the vote of one of the pop bonus factions. So at the very least I'll be the first planetary governor. If I am incorrect about the extra votes, then it will be enviable that some other faction will win in a future election, but at least I'll have 20-30 turns of gov bonuses.

I plan to live in Free Market. Since I am less of a threat to the AI factions, they will be more inclined to sign treaties and maybe a pact or two with me. But I intend to pick a fight with one of the two top factions, preferably a tech bonus faction. This way I can target them for probe actions and land those critical techs. All the extra cash will mean I will have enough credits to buy just about anything else when I need it.

I plan of becoming a tech broker. Techs will be the first thing AI factions will want to swap, plea, or demand. Always accept. If someone doesn't have all my tech then I will just gift them what is left. Not only will this get me into their good graces, but the other factions will have to research techs that I don't have, and some of them will come my way via TechShare while I stick to my beelines.

When I do pick up the phone and start talking to people, I'll call everyone during the same turn. Starting with the faction with the most techs, I hope to get as many techs from them as possible, then call the next highest and work my way down. By calling everyone in the same turn, I will be the only one to reap the benefits of sharing/giving tech.

Since this will require a Hybrid style of play for several reasons, I can not really comment on other high priorities within this faction. The whole idea is to be able to play in any environment and still achieve victory. I will be packing bases close together for shared defense, and increasing my overall revenue from commerce. I will also incorporate other strats when possible, but always look for that balance to keep myself in a modest position.

I expect this to be more of a challenge for me. Many times before, I have been so far ahead, that it was pointless to go on. Now I will become a better player to be able to survive from a weaker stance. Wish me luck.

	24-10-2000 00:56									#5
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Your idea of trying the Data Angels is very reasonable, but in fact the "slingshot" approach you describe has worked best for me as the Consciousness.

They are slow starters, and can't pop boom, so if you play them as a builder faction (ie not a huge military) they aren't going to get any major score on the power graphs. But they flower late, and well. The AIs leave them alone, and human players can underestimate their potential. It depends what kind of victory you want, of course, but if you're heading for Transcend they are a good one to consider. Slow start, devastating finish

	24-10-2000 20:50									#6
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Intresting... I like the Consciousness a lot myself, and usualy go with them when playing for 1st. I am a builder at heart, but like the flexibility to going to war and still gain techs at a decent clip.

When playing this type of style, what has/n't worked for you?

Also, I read on other board that when caravaning resources from one city to another there is a loss of one resource. I didn't think this was the case, but if anyone could confirm or deny this I would be grateful.

	26-10-2000 08:06									#7
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Um, honestly?



I've never played this strategy deliberately. I had it forced on me in a recent MP game where I was the Consciousness. Believer me, I tried *everything* not to be bottom of the power graph Expansion drives (hah!), breeding drives (double hah!), research drives (yeah, ok, that one flew) and various other half-baked strategies. It became a running joke

But then all of a sudden, they just went crazy. A few key breakthroughs (orbital space, transcendii) and they absolutely soared. I was genuinely astonished - I'd felt like I was pedalling a bicycle uphill for most of the game and then suddenly I was behind the controls of a sleek, manoeuverable supersonic jet ...

After that, I started thinking about the game and I realised that one of the reasons why I'd done well in it was *because* I'd looked pathetic for the early part of the game. I'm not sure it's the basis of a strategy, but it's certainly food for thought.

Probably my favourite faction at the moment are the Peacekeepers, and when I analyse it, it's for the same reasons. They don't do particularly well at first if they're up against factions like UoP and Gaians. The efficiency penalty really holds their research back, so they don't look very strong early to mid game. But of course, they have the Human Genome on steroids to facilitate an easy pop-boom to huge bases. So I guess that's a bit of a stealth approach too ...

	28-10-2000 03:08									#9
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I did originally post this in one of the other threads, but thought it might be of more relevance here....

Another thing you can do with GAs, to get you to the coveted +2 econ without FM:

Run wealth, jack the psych allocation up to around 40% for a turn, and watch the GAs come flooding in. Your economy, at most bases, will now be at +2. Then, reset psych allocation to 20%, and the GAs will stay, because of the extra energy generated by the +2 econ. In this way, you can have a half-decent economy, and not have to worry about pacifism, very useful if you are at war, of course.

Another side-effect, (if you run democratic, that is, and assuming you have CCs up) is your ability to pop boom, because of the extra +2 growth. This can be soooo useful early-mid game, when your economy is still finding it's feet, and you don't want to worry about inefficiency.

This makes it pretty easy to just shoot up the chart after a certain point, as not only are you pop booming, you have +2 econ as well! The +2 efficiency can be used to churn that extra bit out of your labs with a smaller penalty, and assuming you keep the psych at around 20%, you're positively sailing to Transcendence....

	01-11-2000 21:10									#10
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OK, it may be a bit late for an example, but I'll give you one anyway.....

Playing the PKs - reasonable starting place, I was 5th when I nabbed the Empath Guild having not contacted anyone. Traded several techs, became tech leader (effectively first refusal on tech trades). Once the energy restrictions were lifted, I switched to Demo/FM/Knowledge, and jacked psych up to 20%. Managed to get the tech down to 3 turns by 2200 - it was at a tech per turn by 2250, and I transcended in 2278.

Now if that's not a slingshot, I don't know what is....