27-12-2002 20:58									#1
	Emancipationbill support by A.S.E. Increase the size of your Attachments

Members of the A.S.E., I'm planning to make a bill against slavery. I want to know if you as members of the A.S.E. would support this bill. As I have seen that there is no support in the Senate for an immediate emancipationof all slaves, it shall be a moderate bill. I would like to make at least a start to give the slaves civil rights and so create equality before the law. Perhaps further emancipation can be achieved as the conservatives discover that unequality and poverty is not a good basis for a strong nation and happy and educated workers can serve our nation much better than poor illiterate slaves. Therefore I want to include this in the bill:

1. The government must start immediately freeing slaves by housing them in our current cities and newly conquered cities.
2. The government must free as many slaves as new citizens can be housed in our current cities and in the newly conquered cities.
3. The government needn't to house more slaves in the new cities if the city should fall into disorder when more slaves are being housed that particular city.
4. The government needn't to house slaves in cities in which parts of the population resists the government.
5. The government may keep 50% of the slaves to complete public works on tiles that are currently under our rule and regions that may come under our rule. As there are no more public works to be built, those slaves must immediately be freed according to the rules above.
6. The government may only stop freeing slaves when either our national income drops below 70 percent of our current national income: 804 lytons par turn or we are attacked by six or more countries on the same continent of which two must have adjacent borders and there exists a threat of losing cities to these six or other enemies whether they be on the same continent or not.

I'd like to hear any comments. If people think that any requirements should be added, removed or altered please let me know in this thread. Keep in mind that there is not enough support for immediate freeing of all the slaves and the bill should be moderate. If people think this bill isn't moderate enough, or just too moderate I'd like to hear that too, but please come with arguments.

Equality before the law should not be something to fight for, but a self-evidency.

Thanks,

Aidun

Last edited by Aidun on 27-12-2002 at 21:08

	28-12-2002 05:42									#2
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You shall burn under the harsh rule of the evil lord Ming! So the Prophet Aggie has fortold!

	28-12-2002 09:49									#3
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Sorry for not responding, Aidun. I had to go when I first saw this thread, and then it dropped off my radar...

I'm not sure any bill with actual power is necessary (and since the senate has no power over workers, such a bill would probably be dragged through the Court). One recommending a course of gradual integration might be nice, just to confirm the senate is behind that effort.

	28-12-2002 14:35									#4
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This bill is a sick violation of the "right" of foriegn workers to be cleansed by working for our superior race, truely it makes me sick

	28-12-2002 16:58									#5
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don't call them slaves, call them "illegal combatants" and let them work a few years to regret their unworthy lives under the influence of the "wrong god"

	28-12-2002 17:00									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep One recommending a course of gradual integration might be nice, just to confirm the senate is behind that effort.

Kloreep,

Can you explain it a little bit more? Gradual integration?
Oh and why should this bill be dragged to the court. The Senate has indeed no power over workers, but it has the power to make bills that oblige the DM, or so I thought.

Please more comments... Anybody?

Aidun

	28-12-2002 17:07									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Skywalker You shall burn under the harsh rule of the evil lord Ming! So the Prophet Aggie has fortold!

quote: Originally posted by Nolan This bill is a sick violation of the "right" of foriegn workers to be cleansed by working for our superior race, truely it makes me sick

Nice to see that the conservatives on this point togerther with the fanatic religious ones (or should I call them fundamentalists ) are reacting.

Aidun

	28-12-2002 19:50									#8
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This thread is meaningless. Per the Civolopedia, there are no slaves. Per the /F3/ (Military advisor), there are workers and captured foreign workers.

All workers both native and foreign made have exactly the same singuar right. (The right to work). So all of you roleplay freaks who want to emancipate our proud foreign workers, are actually calling for us to oppress them by denying them their only right. Even worse, since the act of joining effectively 'kills' the worker, you are advocating foreigner genocide.

SHAME ON YOU

	28-12-2002 22:20									#9
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Shouldn't take it all too serious about freeing, but I think integrating the foreign workers in the exiting and especially in the newly conquered cities makes our cities more productive. The whole mess around is roleplay. It's just funny, because I remember of my history lessons at school that the freeing of the slaves in America was in the same age at the same technological developmentrate as Apolitonia is now.

Aidun

	28-12-2002 22:37									#10
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It is their SACRED DUTY, not just their RIGHT, to work for the good of the superhuman Apolytonians! They should be GLAD of this opportunity to escape from the harsh lash of Ming! Let them REJOICE in serving us!

good lord, rp is fun

	28-12-2002 22:38									#11
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btw Aidun, integrating slaves into newly captured cities is a BAD idea, because they'll be far more likely to flip.

	28-12-2002 22:48									#12
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Even if they are not of the origin of the civ we are attacking?

You're right RP is fun

Aidun

	28-12-2002 23:02									#13
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Aidun - yes, on both counts

Remember when Soren told us all about how culture flip works? Well, one of the factors in number of foreign citizens. Not number of citizens belonging to the civ that's trying to flip it.

	28-12-2002 23:51									#14
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Soren? When did he tell us about flip? But if it doesn't matter about the nationality of the foreign worker, first rush the whole civ from the map and then we can add slowly foreign worker to the city, for instance in Frankfurt or Hannover when Germany has fallen.
Otherwise, the bill shall never be posted.
Anyway, I'm still learning.

Aidun

	29-12-2002 00:25									#15
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MONTHS ago. Maybe it was just at CivFanatics.

	29-12-2002 00:33									#16
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Well then I missed it. If you look at the date I joined, you know why. Is there anywhere I can read it, I think it will also help me playing my own games, perhaps at a higher level.

Aidun

	29-12-2002 00:37									#17
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I dunno. It's probably buried in the strategy forum.

	29-12-2002 00:52									#18
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Buried already, and I didn't even know the thread. (whif) I guess it's nearly impossible to dig it up as it is already buried for months.

Aidun

	29-12-2002 01:10									#19
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Here's one, and another.

	29-12-2002 01:18									#20
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Thanks for these links. I'll go reading them

	29-12-2002 03:28									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Aidun Kloreep, Can you explain it a little bit more? Gradual integration?

I was thinking of adding a few now to small cities (like Oak Ridge) now, then gradually integrating more as hospitals are built and allow cities to expand over 12.

quote: Oh and why should this bill be dragged to the court. The Senate has indeed no power over workers, but it has the power to make bills that oblige the DM, or so I thought. Please more comments... Anybody? Aidun

I always viewed the senate as a minister; it has particular powers to declare war, approve treaties, mobilize, etc., just as the SMC controls all non-pop units, the FAM interacts with AI civs, and the DM controls cities and pop units. So, I always thought the ability to emancipate would lie with the minister who has control of the workers (DM), and the senate would make their will - albeit non-binding will - clear through polls and perhaps powerless bills.

But perhaps I'm misinterpreting the senate's power.

	29-12-2002 04:07									#22
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The senate has ULTIMATE power. They just have to use it, which is more difficult for them than the ministers.

	29-12-2002 10:25									#23
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Here it is.

quote: Proposed laws may not violate or change the Constitution. Proposed laws may change any existing laws or Executive orders.

Okay, I am officially not good at reading constitutions.

	29-12-2002 21:51									#24
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hi ,

you get my support

have a nice day







but we must do it a slow and steady rate