28-12-2002 19:58									#1
	# of cities for FP Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

In the civilopedia, it says you need 8 cities on a standard map to get the FP. How many cities do u need on large map?

	28-12-2002 20:52									#2
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The cities needed for FP is equal to half the "# of optimal cities" for that map size. (Check the editor.)

In the case of the Large map, the optimal city number is 18, so you need 9.

	29-12-2002 02:11									#3
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Yeah, Vlad's right. And I've noticed that many mods raise the number of optimal cities (probably to reduce corruption effects), so it takes longer to be able to build the FP.

	01-01-2003 11:00									#4
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half the optimal city number is a pre-requisite for most if not ALL small wonders, although only documented for the FP. Or atleast it was back in v1.1something. I played a game on a huge map with a huge optimal city number. Got lucky with a relatively early leader but with no wonders in sight. Built Army, had victory, no want to build the HE message. eventually built the required number of cities and both 'we want to build' messages appeared. This got me thinking.

Deliberately built unusual bic files with all kinds of twists to make it possible to have requirements for small wonders before half the optimal city number. When I reached the city count, all the 'want to build' messages cascaded at next end of turn.

I don't know if this behavior still exists in v1.29

	02-01-2003 22:01									#5
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I think the standard OCN from tiny to huge maps are:
8, 12, 16, 24, and 32. (This is editable)

Half the OCN is needed to build the FP.

	12-03-2003 23:31									#6
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Bump

	13-03-2003 01:22									#7
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In special occasions you may need to Raplh up a few cities to build the FP.

For example if you're isolated on small island on a large map and can't reach anything. Not that this happened to me this weekend or anything. BTW 12 is the magic number for large maps.

	13-03-2003 01:35									#8
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For the FP -- is it half the "map OCN" or half the "map and difficulty level OCN?"

Catt

	13-03-2003 02:22									#9
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Half the map OCN. That's why it's different in the AU MOD even though corruption is the same. You can definitely build other small wonders without that.

	13-03-2003 02:33									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Nor Me Half the map OCN. That's why it's different in the AU MOD even though corruption is the same.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear, I want to make sure you answered the question I was trying to ask.

If Emperor-level difficulty means an 80% OCN, and a given map size has an OCN of 20, would the Emperor-level game offer an FP build at city 10 (half of "map OCN") or at city 8 (half of "map and difficulty OCN" since the "base 20 OCN is reduced to 16 by the difficulty modifier of 80%).

I've never really watched closely enough to know for certain (though if memory serves, it probably is just map OCN without regard to difficulty modifiers).

Catt

	13-03-2003 02:57									#11
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I could not build it at 8 cities on my last PTW no mods EMP level, for what it is worth.

	13-03-2003 06:04									#12
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Catt, Nor Me actually answered your question.

In the AU Mod we increased the "map OCN" and decreased the difficulty percentage so that the "map and difficulty OCN" remains the same as in stock Civ3. But the AU mod requires more cities than stock Civ3 to build the FP, so that means that "map OCN" is what matters for the FP.

	13-03-2003 06:59									#13
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quote: Originally posted by alexman Catt, Nor Me actually answered your question.

For some reason I thought it was done differently in the Mod. But that's really immaterial since I typically need to have things explained to me, in the simplest terms, with no leaps of logical reasoning, before I will truly understand them

Thanks Nor Me and alexman. Map OCN it is.

Catt