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Graag is offline Graag
King
London
Nov 1999
time: 05:24
  Old Post 29-12-2002 09:14
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Serial Experiments Lain Full PM-box? Change here!

For a long time I have enjoyed anime, but I never thought it could be art. Serial Experiments Lain is one of the most amazing things I have seen for a while. Anyone else seen it?

Anodyne is offline Anodyne
Prince
Being perverse is bad.
Jan 2001
time: 07:24
  Old Post 29-12-2002 09:21
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I've seen it!

Well, the first few episodes sober, the rest highly caffeinated. But yes, it is ART! Probably the most psychedelic animated fiction I've ever seen - a place with lots of electric wires and purple shadows, a girl wearing a bear-suit at home and men stepping out of shadows saying "we weren't here". Oooooo!

No but really, it was great.

Graag is offline Graag
King
London
Nov 1999
time: 05:24
  Old Post 29-12-2002 09:30
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No sh*t.

Yeah I've watched it through twice now. Stunning. I still don't get it, but I haven't seen anything as beautiful or thought-provoking in a long while. Now all I need to do is save up for the DVDs so I can watch it proper.

Anodyne, you HAVE to see it all the way through again. As do I. As soon as I get some smoke. You are a toker, I imagine?

Anodyne is offline Anodyne
Prince
Being perverse is bad.
Jan 2001
time: 07:24
  Old Post 29-12-2002 09:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Graag
Anodyne, you HAVE to see it all the way through again. As do I. As soon as I get some smoke. You are a toker, I imagine?


You're so correct.
The only time I saw it was in a small, crowded room and I practically missed the episodes after 6...

I need to watch it through my own tv/stereo-systems!
Preferably baked, yes
But alas, I can't download it before I get a new computer (1,5Gt is hardly enough...)

You should definitely see some of Don Hertzfeldt's works! Now they're psychedelic! ...although in a VERY different way than Serial Experiment...

Graag is offline Graag
King
London
Nov 1999
time: 05:24
  Old Post 29-12-2002 09:58
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Who Don Hertzfeldt? Will I be able to d/l anything by him?

Anodyne is offline Anodyne
Prince
Being perverse is bad.
Jan 2001
time: 07:24
  Old Post 29-12-2002 10:11
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You could search Kazaa (or similar...) for;
Rejected
Billy's Balloon
L'Amour
Genre

Anodyne is offline Anodyne
Prince
Being perverse is bad.
Jan 2001
time: 07:24
  Old Post 29-12-2002 10:12
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Oh, the official website!

http://www.bitterfilms.com/

ixnay is offline ixnay
ACS Staff: 'RoN' Content Editor
I <3 etna, omg disgaea fag
Jan 1970
time: 22:24
  Old Post 29-12-2002 10:57 Visit ixnay<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Got spare money?

I haven't gotten around to seeing it yet. But TechTV is going to be showing it on their new anime block that launches on Monday, so I'll probably watch some of it then.

SnowFire is offline SnowFire
Emperor
New York City, NY
Jan 1970
time: 00:24
Arrow  Old Post 29-12-2002 11:13 Visit SnowFire's homepage!
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Wraith appearing in 4...3...2...

Anyway, yes, Lain is an excellent show. Definitely one of the rare shows that will really punish you if you try and sleepwalk through it.

Now I just need to actually get around to borrowing the last 2 episodes of Boogiepop Phantom, being that I missed the showing of them...

Wraith is offline Wraith
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Aug 1999
time: 23:24
  Old Post 29-12-2002 19:43
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--"but I never thought it could be art"

There are a number of works that really qualify as art. I'd recommend movies by Hayao Miyazaki (Spirited Away) and Mamoru Oshii (Jin-Roh, although he wasn't director on this one) as a for instance, as well as works like Grave of the Fireflies.

--"Anyone else seen it?"

Certainly. It's the series that hooked me on anime. I had seen some before this, but nothing truly outstanding. But this...

I will make my usual recommendation of visiting Thought Experiments Lain, the best SE:L site I've found.

--"Probably the most psychedelic animated fiction I've ever seen"

Well, there actually are other shows that probably outclass it for psychedelic. Angel's Egg, Utena the movie, stuff like that.

--"Stunning. I still don't get it,"

It doesn't present a solution wrapped up in a neat package. It raises more questions than it answers. It's highly unlikely that you'll find any two people who "get it" in exactly the same way.

--"But TechTV is going to be showing it on their new anime block that launches on Monday,"

Which is great and all, but there are two problems here. Tech TV is going to be editing the shows for time (US stations typically run almost a full 5 minutes more commercials per half-hour than Japanese stations do), and I'm pretty sure it'll be the dub.
Now the dub isn't flat out bad or anything, but it is too flat. They managed to miss some important touches, which is readily evident even in episode 1. One of Lain's lines is supposed to be delivered in a markedly different voice, but isn't. (It's the line in Cyberia, btw. You'll know which one I mean when you get there.)

--"Wraith appearing in 4...3...2..."

=^_^=

--"Now I just need to actually get around to borrowing the last 2 episodes of Boogiepop Phantom,"

Another good one. I need to go rewatch that one, especially since I've got an AMV idea for it I might try.

If you like Lain, Boogiepop is another to check out for sure. As is Key: The Metal Idol.

And I must mention my current otaku obsession, Haibane Renmei. This is the work of yoshitoshi ABe, the guy who did the character designs for SE:L (may be obvious from the attached image; ABe's developed a unique style). Haibane is based off of ABe's doujins, and he's the one doing the screenplay, and it is excellent. It just finished airing in Japan, so it'll be a while before it gets overseas, but something to keep an eye out for.

Wraith
"If you aren't remembered, then you never existed."
-- Alice ("Serial Experiments: Lain")

Attachment: reki_rakka.jpg
This has been downloaded 83 time(s).

Apocalypse is offline Apocalypse
King
Lexington, VA: College - Houston, TX: Home
Aug 2005
time: 00:24
  Old Post 30-12-2002 00:48
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quote:
Originally posted by ixnay
I haven't gotten around to seeing it yet. But TechTV is going to be showing it on their new anime block that launches on Monday, so I'll probably watch some of it then.

No Lain this week. Just 4 episodes of Crest of Stars or whatever it is called.

Jaakko is offline Jaakko
King
in Yellow
Jan 2000
time: 07:24
  Old Post 30-12-2002 01:24
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Lain wa hentai desu...

spoiler(highlight to read):
My take on it is that Lain is simply a paranoid split personality case who can bend reality at will. Everything else that happens in the series is just a reflection of her insanity.

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:24
  Old Post 30-12-2002 03:55 Visit DanS's homepage!
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It's an excellent work. I took it as an offshoot of the cyberpunk genre (i.e., Western). But IIRC, Wraith doesn't necessarily agree with this.

Anodyne is offline Anodyne
Prince
Being perverse is bad.
Jan 2001
time: 07:24
  Old Post 30-12-2002 04:46
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But the thing that really makes me confused is why is the girl's name LAIN if she's Japanese? They don't use the letter L.

Graag is offline Graag
King
London
Nov 1999
time: 05:24
  Old Post 30-12-2002 08:38
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The theme song is amazing. Maybe only be association with Lain, but it blows my mind, for no clear reason.

Graag is offline Graag
King
London
Nov 1999
time: 05:24
  Old Post 30-12-2002 12:25
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"Hayao Miyazaki (Spirited Away)
Mamoru Oshii (Jin-Roh, although he wasn't director on this one)
Boogiepop Phantom
Grave of the Fireflies
Angel's Egg, Utena the movie
Key: The Metal Idol
Haibane Renmei. This is the work of yoshitoshi ABe."

Whew. That'll keep me busy! Thanks.

Wraith is offline Wraith
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Aug 1999
time: 23:24
  Old Post 30-12-2002 20:56
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--"No Lain this week. Just 4 episodes of Crest of Stars or whatever it is called."

Another good series, based on a series of novels. Almost Space Opera, but not quite. There are the galactic empires and massive battles and so on, but Crest of the Stars is mostly about two people, Lafiel and Shinto, in the midst of all this. The second series (not quite a second season, but a sequel) Banner of the Stars will be out on DVD in the US this year as well.

--"I took it as an offshoot of the cyberpunk genre (i.e., Western)"

I'll agree with cyberpunk influenced, but I don't place it in the cyberpunk genre. Some of the common elements of cyberpunk just plain aren't there. On the other hand, the representation of the Wired is obviously influenced by cyberpunk works.

--"But the thing that really makes me confused is why is the girl's name LAIN if she's Japanese?"

Import name. The Japanese use a fair number of Western names, like Alice in the above quote (although it warps to Arisu in their symbology).
I suspect the authors left it Lain instead of forcing it into the Japanese syllabary to highlight her apartness.

--"The theme song is amazing."

Oddly enough, that's what's playing on my computer right now
Boa is a pretty solid band. I've had a chance to hear them live in concert (got them to sign a limited edition Lain soundtrack too).

--"Whew. That'll keep me busy! Thanks."

There's always more... Oshii and Miyazaki have both worked on a large number of films.
Careful on Utena the Movie, btw. It comes after a TV series that you should probably watch first. CPM is only now getting around to finishing their DVD release on that, but the first story arc, The Student Council Saga, is complete. They're working on The Black Rose Saga now.

Unfortunately, Miyazaki is trying to retire. I say trying, since he's ending up directing another movie, although he wasn't planning to. There's not really anyone around who can replace him.
Overall, I expect there to be fewer of the top quality art titles coming out over the next decade. There just aren't many of the newer generation of directors and so on that come close to Oshii or Miyazaki. Only ones I really have hope for right now are the yoshitoshi ABe/Tokoro Tomokazu combination (NieA_7 as well as Haibane Renmei).

Wraith
"I just abandoned my body. I still live here..."
-- Serial Experiments: Lain

Last edited by Wraith on 30-12-2002 at 21:59

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