29-12-2002 21:34									#1
	Spanish civil service Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

My lord Togas, most honoured leader of our nation,

Señor Tamali has done a great job planning the sites to build our future cities on. Señor Clemente has created a good policy for many years to come. But needn't such work to be done by civil servants in service of thy advisors. It might be good for our nation to have a specialized civil service that can provide information and policies that can be discussed and eventually altered by thy advisors. Having many specialized people working to make policies can give us an advantage over the other nations who certainly don't have thought out this.
I'd like to learn about thy view on this.

Have a nice day my lord.

(deep bow)

Aidun Cian

	29-12-2002 23:54									#2
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(When next he bows, please, someone, move this marble-top table out of the way so as he doesn't walk off swaying...)

It sounds like an interesting, if a bit un-Ancient idea...but I'd like to hear further views on it.

Perhaps a council system should be adopted, under His Lordship, like the council systems of the Ancient Celts, of which the original Spanish were a significant part. They had a council of twelve men, all clan leaders, who would decide issues inside the tribe, while the major issues were decided by the clan leader, Milord Togas.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger
Squid Baron

	30-12-2002 00:29									#3
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What i meant to say Hernan, was that it might be good for us we would have specialized people who provide the "politicians" with ideas. This system of civil service was in the beginning of the ancient era already developed by the Egyptians. It can also help other people who don't know yet so much of some technical issues like Tamali's citysite plans to learn. It can only strengthen us.

Aidun Cian

	30-12-2002 08:12									#4
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Quite. The idea is interesting, though such a board would have to hold most of the clan leaders on it, and certainly men like the brilliant Clemente and the equally brilliant High Priest. Perhaps even I should apply for such a board. I hope Milord does consider such an option, even just to look it over.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger
Diplomat

	30-12-2002 11:44									#5
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[OOC]

I have to agree with History Guy that a modern civil service wouldn't come around until roughly the advent of the technology "Education" in Civ3.

That said, we could still do something like what would ahve pre-dated a modern civil service... anyone want to comment on what might have existed? (keeping in mind that we can probably take some liberties in the interests of keeping our people interested in the game and giving us an advantage over other teams).

	30-12-2002 12:26									#6
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A scribes service would not be anachronic. They existed from the babylonians up to the typewriter.

	30-12-2002 13:52									#7
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Quite. With our knowledge of the Alphabet, why not set up an organization to use it for record keeping? My assistant priests already use it to keep track of sacrifices, funerals, and heretics, and it has proven most useful, so why should it not be extended to the rest of Iberian society?

	30-12-2002 18:32									#8
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A scribes service is a good start, but what I meant was an organisation that provides the politicians , now the despot and his advisors, with ideas such like Tamali's models etc. They can do some research. In the chats at the DemoGame I read some times that Arnelos asked if somebody could look for trading deals, look at the science advisor, the military advisor etc. If there are some people who fulfil these tasks, everybody can have a task in the policymaking process and learns about policymaking. Policymaking is then not just for a small groop of people who have a lot of experience but at time all of us can participate. When we reach the Age of Democracy (our gov changes to dem) it is needed that we all know how to serve as FAM, Domestic Min., Military Commander and President, if we don't want to be governed by the same group of people every time.
Civil service is something that has greatly increased in the 20th century, but is nearly as old as the history of writing. Civil servants were even a separate class in the old Egypt.

Aidun Cian

Last edited by Aidun on 30-12-2002 at 19:34

	30-12-2002 20:37									#9
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I agree, just the name is scribe, the work is identical to the work of civil servant (within the limits of the current technology), they were just paid either by the despot or by private persons of high ranks.

	30-12-2002 22:26									#10
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For example, justification for the expansion of the Valley of the Cows because of the ancient records telling of the location of the oldest of the tribes as having originally been inhabiting the region ("into the valley, beyond the pass of the two aged mountains") in the days of Enero the Great and such other early Togan ancestors. Yes, I begin to see the point of it. Perhaps it could be done, then.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger
Squid Baron

	31-12-2002 01:00									#11
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I have many advisors and "civil servants" already. Thus far we have three expedition leaders, 2 governors, a slave master, a cheif architect (with little to do), a 2nd in command, a high priest, watcher, five ambassadors, and numerous scribes who maintain our history. I also have a chamberpot cleaner.

At this point in our history, I will add advisors as needed. Any person in our nation who demonstrates that he has an exceptional ability in a certain area may be given a special job, but ALL of the noble familes act has advisors and counselors to me. As has been our custom, much of the decisions made are first discussed casually at my villa in the evenings after the day's work is done.

There may come a time when our nation is too large to be so easily governed, but at this point a single despot (me) and several advisors ought to be able to handle things smoothly.

--Togas

	31-12-2002 02:08									#12
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We alread have the explorers guild, we can have an architect guild, a cultural guild... or a guild for a gold?
Just create a thread, make some statutes, and start planning.


Would be just as "civil servants" anyway...

	31-12-2002 02:12									#13
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(sorry for not posting in a while )

O Grand Despot Togas,

Although it is not often, Señor Calamari seems to be on to a good idea there in his first response to Señor Cian's idea.

[ooc]In many tribes a group of elders (represented by us here I'd guess) would decide things instead of a single El Dictatore(?). [/ooc]

However, we put our trust in you, O Great Togas, for your keen ability to solve problems and such as you have already shown and will undoubtedly continue to exhibit.

[ooc]Ack. I dunno what to say.[/ooc]

[ooc]Oh yeah...no...that's not it...hrm...[/ooc]

[ooc]Oh yeah! I just remembered what I was going to say! Kind of OT for this thread, but no one has attempted to overthrow you yet, Togas . [/ooc]

Señor Mitchell

	31-12-2002 04:28									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Togas I have many advisors and "civil servants" already. Thus far we have three expedition leaders, 2 governors, a slave master, a chief architect (with little to do), a 2nd in command, a high priest, watcher, five ambassadors, and numerous scribes who maintain our history. I also have a chamberpot cleaner. --Togas

To say nothing of:

–the Sub-Watcher of the Field of Battle [reports to the Watcher the happenings on that field]
–the Sub-Watcher of the Field of Love
–the chief cook
–the chief washerwoman
–the tall bald man who stands behind Lord Togas when he eats and whacks a thighbone against a shoulderbone to announce the moment when Lord Togas puts a bite of food in his mouth [this custom was brought into the House of Togas by a long-ago despot’s wife named Lwaxana]
–the "big, bouncy" dance troupe, and its manager, who also manages
–the "not-so-big, not-so-bouncy" dance troupe for men who actually prefer to watch the dancing or when too many of the "big, bouncy" troupe are giving a performance on the Field of Love.

	31-12-2002 15:28									#15
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I have provided the great lord Togas with some ideas that might be fruitful in the future. If he wishes not to use them by now, no matter what the counsel of his advisors may be, that is his own choice and I shall respect that as he is my king.
It shall however not keep me from pleading that a centralized civil service, that provides the great leader and his advisors with information, shall become very useful as our great nation expands its borders. I say: let the advisors advise what pre-policy or plan is the best or what policy shall be made with regard to the information given by the civil service. The system shall perhaps provide us of even more plans and ideas. There is nothing to lose.
[no rp] Keep also inmind that by this system several people can be more involved in the policymaking process. we can work more as a team with this system. [/no rp]
Let the lord Togas decide.

Aidun Cian
Civil service expert

	01-01-2003 01:24									#16
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Pikesfan, though it's a pretty through list, you miss two very, very, very important heads of state:

- The Jester, Sir Ricardo de Ascoyne de Bruhaha, who imitates the actions of everybody who enters the court, and pokes the visitors with the pig bladder he's got on his stick. He is very, very, very important, you know. I mean, after all, he gets to make fun of everybody without fear of retribution. Perhaps it's the most enviable job of all.

and, even more importantly...

- Emilio Mini, the dancing midget. This guy really does mean alot to the happiness of everybody, especially when he hides himself in a vase, and dances around, and sings the Ballad of Nasticus Narcissus and such other works of poetic brilliance. Senor Mini has a salary of nearly one hundred bones a day. Perhaps this one is also enviable. Why don't you sign up? Oh...I know...you're not a midget. Oh well.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger
Squid Baron

	01-01-2003 05:42									#17
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quote: Originally posted by History Guy Pikesfan, though it's a pretty through list, you miss two very, very, very important heads of state: - Emilio Mini, the dancing midget.

I already counted him. Whom do you think manages the two dance troupes? I think you’ve been too busy observing the dance troupes and not their manager

	01-01-2003 07:20									#18
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Hey!

Well...OK...some of those ladies are sort of distracting...(wife hits Hernan with cane)...No, they aren't...at all.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger
Squid Baron