30-12-2002 00:41									#1
	Next GL discussion: Seti might appear soon Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

If we get Seti, what shall we do with him.

Ghengistown will build ToE in 4 turns (we will have researched Atomic Theory in 3 turns). We are using the Palace as a shield bank in The Forbidden City, in anticipation of getting Electronics and then switching to Hoover (and completeing it in 8 turns from now). Currently, none of these two builds could switch to Intel Agency or Mil Acadamy without loosing a number of shields (switching to Wall Street will lose a few more). If we get the GL within the next 4 turns, our choices will be limited as to his uses.

So, for 4 turns, If we get him, we would have to wait to possibly use him. That is if we want to use him for the Palace Move.

Or we can use him for ToE (if we get him within 4 turns). But then we will have waited a Lot of Shields in Ghengistown.

We could use him for Hoover's, but he would have to wait until for at most 4 turns for the tech

We could use him for a Small Wonder, but that's almost a waste.

We could make another Army.

The Debate begins...

	30-12-2002 02:52									#2
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hi ,

could anyone make a spreadsheet with all the calculations

have a nice day

	30-12-2002 03:01									#3
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Drafting Seti's resume as we speak. I don't want to spoil the story just yet, but fear not, Seti is a showman in search of an audience.

	30-12-2002 03:34									#4
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As the other civs discovered Scientific theory quite late and their shields on US were lost, I don't think they'll get ToE very soon, so spend him on Hoover, then we needn't to go on with that and build on palaces etc to save up shield for the next wonder (or small wonder).

Aidun

	30-12-2002 04:34									#5
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Save for palace move.
Doing anything else would be a waste of planning and effort.

	30-12-2002 05:28									#6
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Palace move or UN, but as we shall have HE, future leaders shouldnt be an issue.

	30-12-2002 06:27									#7
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What to do with Seti is somewhat dependnt on when he appears. But surprisingly, much less so than with previous GL's

Naturally, the earliest possible date is 1295. Due to current pre-build status, the only things available are:

Palace move to Macross City. Has about half built Factory with 500 Lyton cash rush cost (if we want to avoid shield waste.)
Army anywhere
Small Wonder in zero shield location is possible but not very attractive. Currently BHQ

ToE and Hoover are both in pre-build and the next Wonder, the UN is simply too far away for serious consideration.

The palace move would force the building of Courthouses in following locations due to increased distance from new Palace
Gaia
Gotham
Termina
Tassagrad
BHQ
AGC
NUC
Boomtown
Apolyton
Loveshack
Oakridge

The cities on Uber AGC/NUC/Boomtown will be horribly corrupt after Palace move so priority for courthouses should be considered. For example, AGC is working on a factory which once the palace moves will be worthless pre CH and PS. It is probably best to eat the current small shield waste and switch AGC to a Courthouse. This is independant of Seti's appearance which is a question of when not if.

The situation for 1300/1305/1310 is similar except:
smaller cash rush for Macross City's Factory
more shield waste on AGC's Factory
different zero shield location.

Also noticed numerous illogical build queues.

We are now in the hi sci period with large lpt surplus and many cities against the hospital cutoff.
University now preferred over bank in all instances.
Hospitals preferred at high food sites
Police Stations preferred where corruption is high

Ssgt roadcage (retired)

	30-12-2002 09:03									#8
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hi ,

those courthouses should have been build a long time ago , ......

have a nice day

	30-12-2002 09:30									#9
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I've read there were many disagreements on the whole palace issue, and I think we'll need a poll about this when Seti appears.
If we get Seti this turn, I personally wouldn't mind changing Ghengistown to a small wonder (Military Academy seems the best idea, since Ghengistown has a high production, and will have an extremely high production in the future), and rushing ToE in a city which just beun to build another improvement / unit, like Apolyton. GHengistown would lose less than one turn of production in the process, and it would have been exactly the same as if we'd have built Military Academy to begin with.

If we have our leader next turn, I still could accept to change Ghengistown (even if I dislike wasting whole turns). After next turn, we might wait for Ghengistown to finish ToE, to rush Hoover in Forbidden City. It will make these cities operational for more menial tasks, with their high production.

Please disregard this whole post if we get to a consensus regarding palace placement.

	30-12-2002 12:20									#10
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The Palace Issue was to mainly wait. I had also called on the Senate to form a commission/committee to further investigate and recommend a new Location to the full Senate. THey still haven't done it and I didn't have time to work on the Corruption Spreadsheets for several more locations...

E_T

	30-12-2002 20:18									#11
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I second Spiffor.
Except that I wouldn't let a GL wait under any circumstances, unless it's just one turn of waiting.

	30-12-2002 20:46									#12
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Rushing ToE in 1295 ab would WASTE 3300 beakers now invested in Nuc Theory. ToE completes whatever Tech you are working on, then allows you to pick the 2nd tech to receive immediately, then allows you to pick the next tech to study. Whatever beakers you have invested in the current tech is lost when ToE is built. This was all spelled out in the Slider Planning thread. Simply put, we are in perfect configuration to Complete Nuc Theory in 1310, select Electronics, slider to 0% for 1315, complete ToE in 1315, etc etc.

Rushing ToE is not a viable option.

	30-12-2002 21:18									#13
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Given that we are using the Palace as a storage bin, the only thing that Seti can currently be used be used for without wasting shields is an Army or else an unstarted small wonder.

The 2nd Army isn't a complete waste, because it would reduce by one the number of armies we need to build once the Military Academy is complete and an army costs 800 shields to build.

Are there any Small Wonders we haven't started building yet?

I would also sugest that cities on Uber Island build Court Houses before Factories.

Last edited by joncnunn on 30-12-2002 at 22:00

	30-12-2002 22:01									#14
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Roadcage, are you sure? I thought that ToE always gives you two techs that you're not researching at the moment.

	30-12-2002 22:09									#15
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My experience in 1.21f is identical to Roadcage. I've had this patch level since Memorial Day and just got the 1.29f patch this weekend (which I won't install until my current game is complete), and play on tiny maps, so I've completed several games under 1.21f.

(First tech is always whatever you happen to be reseraching at the moment. Second tech is whatever you choose.)

This may be different in 1.29f.

Last edited by joncnunn on 30-12-2002 at 22:19

	30-12-2002 22:25									#16
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ToE works like I said. Even if it did, it would be a disaster to rush now, as Electronics (what we really want) is not currently studyable.

	30-12-2002 22:37									#17
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Joncnn, thanks for confirming. v 1.29 works the same way. Lets stop here for a minute and ask why?

Imagine a situation where someone has studied every tech in the Industrial age except one mandatory for advance tech, and said tech is the current 'study'. Now imagine the player completes ToE. If ToE worked the way Shiber thought, the game would probably crash since there are no available techs to pick from! The game designers thought of this little trap and made the current 'study' the first tech given by ToE, which opens up the next era for tech selection.

	30-12-2002 22:46									#18
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don't set the slider to 10%, set it to 0% and have 1 Scientist Specialist, we get more money that way.

E_T

	30-12-2002 22:47									#19
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Roadcage, it's good to know that I won't the ability to pick which techs I want with Theory of Evolution in 1.29f. I'm still going to wait for my current game to complete (currently in early industrial era) though because on the Emperor level, reserach is slower for everyone than in 1.21f.

	30-12-2002 22:47									#20
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The President - on December 16 - in the Topped thread, Term 7 Presidency, stated:

"It should be noted that the construction of Wall Street in one of our cities at some point in the next 19 turns (if possible) would be highly useful in order to soften this potential blow. However, the war effort is likely to sap the necessary production and finances which would be needed to complete that effort on such a small timescale when larger wonders will also need to be under construction."

Given the discussion on drawbacks of the other alternatives, Wall Street may be the best option.

	30-12-2002 23:33									#21
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quote: Originally posted by roadcage Imagine a situation where someone has studied every tech in the Industrial age except one mandatory for advance tech, and said tech is the current 'study'. Now imagine the player completes ToE. If ToE worked the way Shiber thought, the game would probably crash since there are no available techs to pick from! The game designers thought of this little trap and made the current 'study' the first tech given by ToE, which opens up the next era for tech selection.

Good thinking.

	31-12-2002 21:45									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber Roadcage, are you sure? I thought that ToE always gives you two techs that you're not researching at the moment.

hi ,

it gives you the one you are researching now and one for free , the best would be to make sure we get a tech the turn before we build it , then set research to zero with the slider and next turn just choose the two techs we want , and on top we shall have some extra money

have a nice day