30-12-2002 07:58									#1
	Why was the 'Why was the Welsh Thread closed' thread closed? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

That was a valid question, which was then closed out of hand with a pretty appalling excuse I might add.

I would actually appreciate a proper answer to this, especially in light of Ming's Chicago meet antics of the other day...

Please kindly discuss this without immediately resorting to closing the thread out of hand.

This isn't a spam thread, but actually an attempt to address something that has been increasingly getting on my nerves...

Ddiolch 'ch , 'm Groegwr chyfaill

	30-12-2002 14:05									#2
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if you want to address a serious issue, dont bring up excuses. get to the point, directly

	30-12-2002 16:41									#3
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Does it really matter?

Twll dīn pob Sais.

	30-12-2002 18:42									#4
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG if you want to address a serious issue, dont bring up excuses. get to the point, directly

I did already - but you haven't answered.

Those are not excuses, merely a tool to stop you from closing threads out of hand without stopping to think about your actions...

	30-12-2002 18:51									#5
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what was the serious issue? the closing of an idiotic complaint thread for the closure of an idiotic thread?

	31-12-2002 04:50									#6
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Can't you clearly see the answer to this is to abandon your apolyton account? That will surely cripple this site and force them to give into your demands

	31-12-2002 11:39									#7
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How was my complaint idiotic MarkG? Please answer this.

And I still have yet to hear a valid reason for why a perfectly valid thread was closed for no reason.

MarkG, are you under the impression that Welsh is a phony language? I'm not being a smartass, just I can understand since Welsh is a small language that maybe a Greek has never heard of it. Wales is part of the United Kingdom which is a member of the EU, just like your home state of Greece.

The official website for the government of Wales is located here:

http://www.wales.gov.uk/index.htm

No, seriously, I'm not condescending... I'm being perfectly reasonable. If Bods had started a Pig Latin thread, I could see why Mark might want that closed, and if he thought Welsh was fake, maybe thats why he closed it? But Welsh is a real language, and seeing as Bods lives in Wales its absolutely legitimate for him to start a thread about Welsh.

If I had started a thread about Greek, even though I don't speak it, am not greek and live in Canada, I'm willing to bet my life MarkG would not have closed it.

Does that not make sense?

	31-12-2002 11:48									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin Does it really matter? Twll dīn pob Sais.

Of course it matters, you should always question everything.

I realize that MarkG runs the site and can do whatever he wants, and I dont think he owes me an answer as owner of this site, but he does owe me an answer as a human being who has asked an unimposing and perfectly legitimate question about something I think is discriminatory and unfair.

Themāu a Strategaethau!

	31-12-2002 12:26									#9
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Well, I think what happened is Markos has gotten tired of telling people that no foreign language threads are allowed on Apolyton, and didn't realise Jimmy is a recent member...

	31-12-2002 12:36									#10
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you said you have lurked on the forums for some time now Jimmy. so you probably should know that non-english threads are not welcome. so when someone with admitedly limited knowledge of welsh wants to start a welsh thread for no other given reason but to write in welsh, i label it as spam.

	31-12-2002 12:39									#11
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG you said you have lurked on the forums for some time now Jimmy. so you probably should know that non-english threads are not welcome. so when someone with admitedly limited knowledge of welsh wants to start a welsh thread for no other given reason but to write in welsh, i label it as spam.

Ok, thats a valid reason. However, I never knew that because I've seen many other such threads such as finnish and swedish threads which were all posted in their respective languages.

What gives with those? I'm sure many other people will attest to having seen non-English threads that were not closed.

	31-12-2002 12:59									#12
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The Finns seem to have an exemption, since they were arguably the first. That is how it goes. The rule seems to be that they were 'first' so they can have their threads. Others would be copy cats, and so are not allowed.

OTOH, there have been some threads that have wandered into other languages that I have not seen closed. They were not started as other language threads. Maybe they just fell below the raydar. I think the owners and the mods will cut slack, so long as they think they can. When you push it, they pounce. Bods pushes it. He always does, and always has.

Now the others can flame me for my attempt to express an understanding for why the powers that be excercise the powers they have.

*Asbestos on*

	31-12-2002 16:02									#13
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn Themāu a Strategaethau!

Themes and strategies for what?

	31-12-2002 19:36									#14
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NYE covered it pretty well.

The Finns get their language thread because of a grandfather clause. Their language thread was already in existance before the rule was introduced.

	31-12-2002 21:46									#15
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and of course the spanish speakers aren't bothered because they have their own forum and hosted website.

	31-12-2002 22:20									#16
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I don't think there are enough people who can speak welsh to warrant the need for a welsh thread. In fact I don't think there is anyone here whose first language is welsh.

	01-01-2003 03:09									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin Themes and strategies for what?

Oh, I don't speak a word of welsh, but I felt I should end my post with something welsh, so I just pulled it off some website not knowing what it meant.

But still, I think the grandfather excuse is rather flimsy. And I know Bods pushes things to the limit (and beyond) but he hadn't in that thread yet. Its innocent until proven guilty, right?

And whats wrong with non-English anyways? I can see that on the actual site, but on the forums? Who cares?! So that means, if you're a civ fan and speak Italian, and you know for a fact that there are other Italians on the board perfectly willing to speak to you, the fact that you can't speak English means you can't talk to them?

Seems silly, but I respect the wishes of Markos to do whatever he wants. I just don't see the point.

... Other than if your sponsers have an English-Only policy. Eh, Markos??

	01-01-2003 03:39									#18
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn And whats wrong with non-English anyways? I can see that on the actual site, but on the forums? Who cares?! So that means, if you're a civ fan and speak Italian, and you know for a fact that there are other Italians on the board perfectly willing to speak to you, the fact that you can't speak English means you can't talk to them?

The majority of the posters here speak English, either as a primary or secondary language.

If most of the people spoke Swahili, then we would only be able to post in Swahili.

The point is, speaking in another language is exclusionary, English is read and understood to all here, so that is the language of the forum.

If the mods can't speak another language, they can't mod it can they?

As far as the Finns go, nobody cares what the Finns think about them anyway.



ACK!

	01-01-2003 03:40									#19
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn Oh, I don't speak a word of welsh, but I felt I should end my post with something welsh, so I just pulled it off some website not knowing what it meant.

Oh, and to tell them you don't speak Welsh, you are begging to be banned, or at least PCRed for trolling.

ACK!

	01-01-2003 04:13									#20
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn Oh, I don't speak a word of welsh,

Neither do most welsh people.

	01-01-2003 07:30									#21
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Hey Jimmy, Just wondering, are you Dookie's DL
-
Oh and guy's you are neglecting the Spanish Civ Site- you can also speak spanish on Apolyton if you are so inclined!
-
But just wondering on the policy Mark- can we start language threads if we are discussing some topic in that language? Or are all language threads (except the finns due their remarkable voting bloc) outlawed?

	01-01-2003 11:51									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin I don't think there are enough people who can speak welsh to warrant the need for a welsh thread. In fact I don't think there is anyone here whose first language is welsh.

That's part of the point, despite significant inroads Welsh is still an in danger language and therefore needs to be nurtured...

I understand the 'grandfather thread' theory and that is fine, however Markos closed the thread with what could be construed as an offensive and ignorant remark to Welsh people...

Just like the appalling treatment of the French on these threads that is also condoned (and sometimes encouraged) I think it is an insensitive double-standard which should be stopped...

Just like Ming's antics, it is not appreciated to be treated like children and admonished, when the mods themselves act like children...

What is ironic however is that Bods posted a Welsh language thread after posting that all languages other than English should be allowed to die out/be killed off...

	01-01-2003 15:29									#23
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We do need to bear in mind that by simply opening athreads Bodds has already given it a50% shove towards death...

If he weren't such a troll he might get more lattitute.

	01-01-2003 16:32									#24
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quote: however Markos closed the thread with what could be construed as an offensive and ignorant remark to Welsh people

do you understand the use of the smiley?

quote: Just like the appalling treatment of the French on these threads that is also condoned

please post specific examples of such behaviour from the owners/mods

	01-01-2003 18:07									#25
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quote: Originally posted by MOBIUS That's part of the point, despite significant inroads Welsh is still an in danger language and therefore needs to be nurtured...

Why? It may seem callous but so what if its becomes a dead language? Who cries over the loss of the Manx language?

	01-01-2003 20:58									#26
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quote: Originally posted by MOBIUS Just like the appalling treatment of the French on these threads that is also condoned (and sometimes encouraged) I think it is an insensitive double-standard which should be stopped...

Interesting comment.
So, you think that France as a nation is abused, so let me ask you this:
Do you feel the same way about the insensitive double standard applied to both Israel and the United States, or does your moral indignation have limits based on what nations meet your basic criteria as being abuse worthy or not?

Not trolling you Moby, just pointing out that you never seem to have a problem being insensitive to an Israeli or an American.
I'm asking you directly if YOU maintain such a double standard, and if so, why do you question others on their alleged double standard?
Just looking for clarifacation here, and I also agree that allowing the Finn thread is patently unfair if other tougnes are barred.

	01-01-2003 21:27									#27
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The difference is that the French are unable to defend themselves.

	01-01-2003 21:58									#28
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I would prefer that Moby answer, Saggy, I think the answer will be quite illuminating.

	01-01-2003 22:54									#29
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Croeso i Gymru! Pobol Y Cwm! Plaid Cymru!

	01-01-2003 22:58									#30
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Which means?