31-12-2002 02:47									#1
	1295 A.D. Turnchat STARTS NOW (saves here) Increase Your PM Length

Chat is starting now.

This chat should only last 2-3 turns (because that's all we have orders for).

Here is the save:

Attachment: banana of the egyptians,smc moves,1295 ad.sav
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).

	31-12-2002 02:51									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I'm not coming right now, but I'll try to wonder my way in later -- I'm working on a project that should allow me to be in the chat while I work.

Until then, cheers .

-- adaMada

	31-12-2002 03:45									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I will try to stop in when I get home...


Mss

	31-12-2002 05:26									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Turn 1 (1295 A.D.):

Roman Galleon sunk off of Uber Isle by our glorious Ironclad - Ironclad suffered NO damage in the attack
Our cavalry scouts toward Brundisium and finds that the city is showing a fortified veteran Roman cavalry on defense
2 Artillery bombard Brundisium (barracks destroyed and 4/4 Cavalry now 3/4)
Elite Cavalry attacks 3/4 Roman Cavalry in Brundisum and defeats it (our cav now 2/5)
Brudisium captured from Romans. 1 resistor (pop of 3)
SMC ordered WF in Brundisium set to starvation (down to pop 1 or 2)
3 Artillery bombard Stuttgart (CITIZENS KILLED - Pop now 6, 4/4 rifle now 2/4, 4/5 rifle now 2/5)
3 Artillery bombard Stuttgart (whif, 2/4 rifle now 1/4, 2/5 rifle now 1/5)
2 Artillery bombard Stutgart (whif, 2/2 rifle now 1/2)
Elite Cavalry attacks 1/4 rifle in Stuttgart and kills it (cav now 4/5)
Elite Cavalry attacks 1/5 rifle in Stuttgart and kills it (cav now 4/5)
Veteran Cavalry attacks 1/2 rifle in Stuttgart and kills it (no damage to cav)
Stuttgart captured from Germans. 4 resistors (pop of 5)
"Berlin Bombers" stack of artillery, infantry, and cavalry moved to just south of Berlin
Stuttgart abandoned - SMC's orders
Heroes' Summit founded on hills tile south of Stuttgart location
16 Cavalry ("Hannover Group") move to just southwest of Hannover
1 Artillery bombards 4/4 Babylon rifle (now 3/4)
1 Artillery bombards 4/4 Roman infantry (now 3/4)
1 Artillery bombards 4/4 Roman legionary (now 3/4)
1 Artillery bombards 3/3 Roman legionary (now 2/3)
Veteran Cavalry attacks 3/4 Babylonian rifle southwest of Brundisium and kills it (Cav now 1/4)
Veteran Cavalry attacks 4/4 Babylonian bowman southwest of Brundisium and kills it (Cav promoted to elite, now 4/5)
Elite Knight attacks 3/3 Babylonian bowman southwest of Brundisium and dies (Bowman promoted to veteran, now 2/4)
Veteran Cavalry attacks 4/4 Babylonian pikeman southeast of Brundisium and kills it (Cav now 1/4)
Veteran Cavalry attacks 3/3 Babylonian bowman southeast of Brundisium and kills it (Cav promoted to elite, now 2/5)
Elite Knight attacks 4/4 Babylonian longbowman southeast of Brundisium and kills it (Knight now 4/5)
Veteran Cavalry attacks 3/3 Roman legionary east of Brundisium and dies (Legionary promoted, now 2/4)
Veteran Cavalry attacks 3/3 Roman legionary east of Brundisium and kills it (Cav now 3/4)
Veteran Cavalry attacks 3/3 Roman legionary east of Brundisium and kills it (Cav now 3/4)
Veteran Cavalry attacks 3/3 Roman legionary east of Brundisium and kills it (Cav now 2/4)
Veteran Infantry attacks 3/3 Roman legionary east of Brundisium and kills it (Inf now 1/4)
Veteran Cavalry attacks 3/3 Roman legionary and retreats when it takes 3 hp in damage w/o damaging legionary
Sold Replaceable Parts to the Iroquois for 32 LPT + their WM
Allowed sale of coal with Japan to ride (they now have their own source)
Rushed settler in Abandonment for 64 lytons
Rushed cathedral in Port of Where Its At

Between Turns

Embargo against us between Zulus and China ends
Zulus move frigate and galleon headed east past Persia
Japan moves its 3 ironclads to the west (seeing that Brundisium is now ours rather than Rome's)
Japan moves 3 frigate+galleon combos westward past Persia
China moves a frigate near Tarsus
Iroquois and Babylon sign a trade embargo against us
A whole bunch of Babylonian bowmen and 1 Babylonian warrior invades our territory west of Brundisium
Russia contacts us to complain about our Elite Knight in their territory near Novgorod - we agree to leave
Germany counter-attacks Greek forces in Aztec territory and a German rifleman invades Aztec territory
Aztecs attack invading German rifle and kill it
Greece marches a bunch of infantry, riflemen, and archers through Aztec territory for their next assault on German territory near Cologne
Damaged Roman legionary (2/4) that defeated our cavalry retreats from the front lines
Roman 3/4 Infantry attacks our 4/5 Elite knigth in Russian territory and our elite knight is VICTORIOUS - now 1/5
Pollution near Here It Is - our first pollution
WLAD ends in 5 cities
Abandonment abandoned by completion of settler
WLAD ends in 3 cities
Resistence ends in Brundisium
Greece declares war on Babylon
Trade embargo between Iroquois and Babylon against us ends
Iroquois declare war on Babylon
England delcares war on Babylon
Russia declares war on Babylon
Japan declares war on Babylon

Attachment: banana of the egyptians, 1300 ad.sav
This has been downloaded 10 time(s).

	31-12-2002 06:04									#5
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That put the Iroquois on my S***list !!!

	31-12-2002 06:41									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Turn 1 (1295 A.D.): Iroquois and Babylon sign a trade embargo against us Iroquois declare war on Babylon Trade embargo between Iroquois and Babylon against us ends

One of the shortest embargos in recorded history..........

	31-12-2002 06:43									#7
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Screenshot of Western Germany after the defeat of Hannover by our armies:

	31-12-2002 07:55									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

Will Cologne fall before we have a chance to get it???

We shall see.

E_T

	31-12-2002 07:57									#9
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Turn 2 (1300 A.D.):

Rushed Temple in Brundisium for 116 lytons
Rushed Temple in Heroes' Summit for 116 lytons
The "Frankfurt Attack Group" of 10 artillery, 5 infantry, and a settler invade German territory southwest of Frankfurt
The "Berlin Bombers" (10 artillery) shell Berlin:
whif, Pop from 15 to 14, whif, 4/4 rifle now 3/4, whif, 4/4 rifle to 2/4, 4/4 rifle to 2/4, 4/4 rifle to 3/4, whif, whif
Veteran Cavalry attacks 4/4 rifle in Hannover and kills it (Cav now 2/4)
Veteran Cavalry attacks 4/4 rifle in Hannover and dies (Rifle now 2/4)
Veteran Cavalry attacks 4/4 rifle in Hannover and retreats after taking 3 hp in damage (rifle now 3/4)
Veteran Cavalry attacks 3/4 rifle in Hannover and retreats after taking 3 hp in damage (rifle now 2/4)
Veteran Cavalry attacks 2/4 rifle in Hannover and kills it (no damage to Cavalry)
Veteran Cavalry attacks 2/4 rifle in Hannover and retreats after taking 3 hp in damage (no damage to rifle)
Veteran Cavalry attacks 2/4 rifle in Hannover and dies (no damage to rifle)
Veteran Cavalry attacks 2/4 rifle in Hannover and kills it (Cav now 3/4)
Veteran Cavalry attacks 4/4 Cav in Hannover and dies (German Cavalry now 2/4)
Veteran Cavalry attacks 2/4 Cav in Hannover and kills it (our Cav promoted to Elite, now 2/5)
Hannover captured from Germans. There are 4 resistors (Pop of 6)
All remaining healthy Cavalry from the Hannover strike force sent to just southeast of Cologne
Elite infantry and Veteran Cavalry move to 1 tile away from Frankfurt (from the west after defeat of Hannover)
Hannover WF set to starvation by order of SMC
Galley upgraded to Galleon in Whelsh Coast for 60 lytons and loaded galleon with 2 Cavalry and 2 Infantry from Uber Isle
2 Artillery shell Babylonian bowmen stack SW of Brundisium (4/4 bowman now 2/4, 4/4 bowman now 2/4)
Regular Infantry attacks 4/4 Babylonian bowman SW of Brundisium and kills it (Inf now 1/3)
Veteran Infantry attacks 3/3 Babylonian bowman SW of Brundisium and kills it (no damage to Inf)
Veteran Infantry attacks 3/4 Babylonian bowman SW of Brundisium and kills it (Inf now 2/4)
Veteran Cavalry attacks 2/4 Babylonian bowman SW of Brundisium and kills it (no damage to Cav)
Veteran Cavalry attacks 2/4 Babylonian bowman SW of Brundisium and kills it (no damage to Cav)
Elite Swordsman attacks 3/4 Babylonian warrior SW of Brundisium and kills it (no damage to Sword)
3 Artillery in Fort near Brundisium shell Babylonians in Russian territory (4/4 now 3/4, 3/3 now 2/3, 3/3 now 2/3)
Veteran Infantry attacks 3/4 bowman south of Fort near Brundisium and kills it (Inf now 2/4)
Veteran Infantry attacks 2/3 bowman south of Fort near Brundisium and kills it (no damage to Inf)
Veteran Cavalry attacks 2/3 bowman south of Fort near Brundisium and kills it (Cav now 3/4)
Wounded Cavalry withdrawn from Russian territory
Veteran Cavalry attacks 2/4 bowman southwest of Fort near Brundisium and kills it (no damage to Cav)
Veteran Infantry, Conscript Infantry, and 1 Artillery invade Roman territory on hill SE of Syracuse (so we can bombard next turn)

And now, for your viewing entertainment... the pre-end-of-turn save so that people in the chat can watch whatever happens with the Greek attack of Cologne:

Attachment: popcorn, popcorn, get your popcorn.sav
This has been downloaded 15 time(s).

	31-12-2002 08:14									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Between Turns:

Zulu frigate/galleon combo moves east
Several Japanes frigate/galleon combos move west
Japanese ironclads head along Iroquois coast
Chinese Veteran Frigate attacks and sinks our Caravel, but is now 1/4
German 2/4 Cavalry captures our worker near Berlin, but Cavalry can't make it back into Berlin
Greek force of over a dozen units (infantry, riflemen, archers) attacks Cologne (defended by several elite German riflemen and an elite cavalry) and defeats it with very heavy losses (Germany must already have a Great Leader to have not gained one in this fight, I figure)
Greeks RAZE German city of Cologne
Greek forces invade German territory NE of where Cologne used to be
Greece and Rome sign a peace treaty
Roman Veteran Legionary attacks our Elite Swordsman southwest of Brundisium and kills it (Roman now 1/4)
Greece declared war on Rome
Roman Infantry and several Legionaries move toward Brundisium SE of Syracuse
WLAD ends in 1 city (I think Arbela?)
Resistence ends in Hannover
WLAD celebrated in Port of Where Its At

NOTE: Somehow the random seed everyone else got from the save I posted was different from mine. I didn't change anything before ending turn and they didn't change anything before ending turn after loading the save... so who knows why it happened. We agree that my version of events is the "official" one, but we're going to all replay the end of turn sequence just for kicks to see if we get different results again.

Here's the official save:

Attachment: banana of the egyptians, 1305 ad.sav
This has been downloaded 31 time(s).

	31-12-2002 08:28									#11
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Ok, we've done it again and I got their version of events this time.

I figure that the random seed is set differently when you SAVE the game than if you just keep playing.

As such, I got a different version of events from the save I posted because I didn't reload that save after posting it... I just kept playing. Others loaded that save and likely got its altered random seed.

That's my best guess.

Regardless, we all agree that my original version (without having reloaded the save) is official.

Chat is over.

	31-12-2002 16:29									#12
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I'm curious: how did the "other" version of events differ from the "official" one?

	31-12-2002 19:14									#13
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Download the Popcorn Save (grab some popcorn while your ringside to a razing) and watch it. A No Prize to you, if you can spot the differences.

E_T

	01-01-2003 04:23									#14
	Chat Log Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Here's the Chat Log

E_T

Attachment: #civ3dem.1295-1300ad.txt
This has been downloaded 8 time(s).

	01-01-2003 06:13									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber I'm curious: how did the "other" version of events differ from the "official" one?

hi ,

see the post from Arnelos , that explains it

have a nice day

quote: Ok, we've done it again and I got their version of events this time. I figure that the random seed is set differently when you SAVE the game than if you just keep playing. As such, I got a different version of events from the save I posted because I didn't reload that save after posting it... I just kept playing. Others loaded that save and likely got its altered random seed. That's my best guess. Regardless, we all agree that my original version (without having reloaded the save) is official. Chat is over.

	01-01-2003 11:06									#16
	Inflate your Upload Space

You've misunderstood me. I didn't ask how this happened, I asked what was different in the other, non-official turn of events. The posted save answered my question.

	01-01-2003 12:01									#17
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

And what was the answer?

E_T

	01-01-2003 15:17									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Download "Popcorn, Popcorn, Get your Popcorn.sav" and run the turn. It is right before the Greek attack. You will see the difference.

	01-01-2003 22:22									#19
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quit being so secretive! I don't want to download the popcorn save!

	01-01-2003 23:26									#20
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* * * SPOILER ALERT!! * * *
It's really no big deal, but I suppose that some people might want to enjoy the surprise. So if you do, DON'T READ ON!
The greatest difference is that Greece fails to conquer Cologne. In the official turn of events, Greece conquered Cologne and razed it to the ground.

	02-01-2003 00:49									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Shiber * * * SPOILER ALERT!! * * * It's really no big deal, but I suppose that some people might want to enjoy the surprise. So if you do, DON'T READ ON! The greatest difference is that Greece fails to conquer Cologne. In the official turn of events, Greece conquered Cologne and razed it to the ground.

You must have used the 1.29f version to play it, because that only happened with the people who had had that version.

If you really must know, there were 4 things:

Greece did not make peace terms with Rome (and having the MPP Reactive as soon as Rome attacked our Swordsman).
The Swordsman Survived.
The Caravel that was attacked by the Chinese Frigate survived.
The Elite German Cavalry that Attacked the Worker was 3/5, not 5/5 (either way, he will be dealt with).

Both Versions had Cologne Razed by Greek Forces, Although the balance of Remaining Greek Forces might have been a bit different.

E_T

	02-01-2003 01:56									#22
	Got spare money?

No, I am using version 1.21... although a few days ago I started civ and the text in the corner of the screen said version 1.29 and there were no menu options. The next time I started the game it was business as usual.
Perhaps something is wrong with my installation. I think I'll reinstall.