31-12-2002 09:34									#1
	City Placement Planning Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I have created a scenario with correct, known terrain and played it move for move to our current position.

Let me know who wants a copy of the save.

I am proceeding to see what can be done with the Pyramids, or not...

	31-12-2002 11:00									#2
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I just tried a test run with the Pyramids and was far from impressed with the results. Following my usual SP technique and leaving things at just the five original warriors, I ended up with eight cities and two settlers en route to found additional cities by the time the Pyramids were complete (1100 AD). And that was after adding a worker to #2 pretty early. Also, I had Map Making by the time the Pyramids were finished, so the Pyramids would definitely act as a replacement for another wonder, not as something in addition to another wonder. Even allowing for GS building more extra warriors in the real game, the Pyramids would come rather late in the REXing process. Basically, I now view the Pyramids as making sense only as a fallback for if we try for the Great Lighthouse or Great Library and fail.

Nathan

	31-12-2002 11:12									#3
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Hmmm. I'm at 800bc.

I have 11 cities built (past EotStorm). The Pyramids are coming in 4. The Colossus is going to be built at site 4 next turn.

I have Lit and Map making. Code of Laws in 3 and Republic coming up very quick after that (part of the GA would be under Republic, for sure).

Memphis (2nd city on site 2) could have bailed to the Great Lighthouse many turns ago. It could bail to the Great Library and complete it in 4. Keep that in mind.

Alternatively, we could have city 4 complete the great Lighthouse in 14, and city 2 the great Library in 4. That would be a great 1-2 punch if we are isolated.

In either case, the Pyramids would be coming very late in the REX phase. I did not add any workers (I don't believe in it at this point). I built a few warriors (not enough) so maybe knock back the numer of cities to 9 or 10.

	31-12-2002 11:26									#4
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What city did you guys use? I tried it with the sea#2(the one to the east 6-6-9)
And that one is really not suited for it...
build it in 875bc in monarchy
(I have a log)
There is a lot of room for improvement though.
I didn't rex too much, did add workers (too late probbly to really make a difference)
I guess I'm not used to this testing stuff, didn't really play it like a 'normal' game

	31-12-2002 11:29									#5
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You built it sooner than I did. I didn't sacrifice any other development for it (except for the attentions of Worker 0).

I could have built it sooner, I think. I was not going slow and checking math every turn or 2.

	31-12-2002 12:32									#6
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I played out a game using a heavy granary/settler pump strategy and ended up with ten cities and five settlers by 1100 and granaries in five of our cities. Once again, this was with no additional warriors built beyond the first five; not realistic (especially now that we've met a neighbor), but compatible with my first test for comparison purposes. Had I built my second city in #2 instead of #13 and dedicated it either to a wonder or as a unit factory (but not let it rob EotS of any furs when it needed them), I would have had one less city and one less granary but the same number of settlers. And there are a couple other optimizations I probably could have done as well. In any case, I don't view pursuing the Pyramids as a great idea.

Of course now that we have a neighbor, we need to start testing a whole new set of options. But we need to get The Wheel before we can do it, since horse locations are a key piece of the puzzle.

Nathan

	31-12-2002 12:39									#7
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Is it agreed that #2 is the destination for the gift weather we do a wonder or not?

If so, we have about a week (or more) before the point of no return.

	31-12-2002 12:41									#8
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I have no problems with that

	31-12-2002 16:22									#9
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Is it agreed that #2 is the destination for the gift weather we do a wonder or not?

There has been so many suggestions about city #2 site, that i'm bit confused

Is the site now decided to be 6-6-9 from EotS or 6-6-8 ?

	31-12-2002 16:42									#10
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Good to see you guys are fully testing it, not so good the pyramids didn't turned out to be the perfect idea I viewed it to be. If someone has a save which he can send me: please do, I want to play it out myself as well. (otherwise I'll get a scenario running myself in the next hours, I finally got some time)

That it will be possible to get to the library before the pyramids is certainly something to consider, if so I'd pursue that goal, and leave the pyramids to someone else. But again, if we go for the wonder, I would certainly commit all we can to it, so we are first with at least a very big chance. I want to avoid we commit a city worth of production to it, only to find out somebody else beat us to the punch.

DeepO