01-01-2003 01:02									#1
	3050 Bc Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I have instructed Dejon to play out this turn as I will be at the office today until around 5pm. PST

Orders:

TEG -- North I have temporarily taken command of this expedition for the purpose of meeting GoW so that a trade can be made. TEG's new orders are to travel north and meet up with GoW, then return to their exploration duty.

Magyars -- West

Madrid -- NW

Move settler West.

If worker finishes, move west.

Once we have Bronze Working, change to Writing. Then change production in Madrid to Spearman.

Don't accept Neu Dem deal yet, but Post in this thread what it is and I'll post what we should offer or do next.

Post if there are any questions or problems.

Do the usual screenshots, etc.

--Togas

	01-01-2003 01:11									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

How shall we respond?

Are you certain about that settler order? I was away for a bit, so I might have missed something, but I thought the city was to be placed on the tile NW of the settler's current position.

	01-01-2003 01:17									#3
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Currently Madrid is working the wheat, which will grow the city in 2 turns and complete the spearmen in 13 turns. If we work the cattle instead, the city will grow in 4 turns and complete the spearmen in 5 turns. Shall I switch it?

	01-01-2003 01:30									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Clarifications:

Move Settler West.

Accept offer from Neu Dem. .... I know I wanted to stall them out a few turns, but I don't see any reasonable way to do it now other than to just deny their offer and try to get them back to the bargaining table later on. They may not want to trade later on, especially if they found alphabet through another means.

As this offer is what we ultimately wanted in the trade, let's do the deal and then rush to trade with GoW before ND does.

--Togas

	01-01-2003 01:31									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Arnelos wanted to focus on high growth and trade for Madrid. Keep workforce the same unless he posts otherwise.

--Togas

	01-01-2003 01:48									#6
	Remove this text

Okay, orders completed.

World Map


Madrid


Science


F11


Score

	01-01-2003 02:06									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Togas Accept offer from Neu Dem. .... I know I wanted to stall them out a few turns, but I don't see any reasonable way to do it now other than to just deny their offer and try to get them back to the bargaining table later on. They may not want to trade later on, especially if they found alphabet through another means.

So we ended up with 3 Masonries and Pottery for Alphabet -- I wouldn't have taken it if they had offered 4 Masonries... if only because that Abu Borc guy is one ugly SOB.

I have a feeling "to just deny their offer and try to get them back to the bargaining table later on" would have been the better choice. We'll soon know it if we have nothing to offer GoW or Lux for the techs we need.

	01-01-2003 02:24									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

More thoughts from Togas on the trade:

quote: Email from Togas dejon, I know. Send the save. I hate changing my mind from "delay" to "deal" but in this instance it appears the safest thing for us to do. I have competing issues. I want to techwhore Alphabet, but I also want Masonry & Pottery, AND I want to stay on ND's good side for future deals. I want to establish our reputation early on in the game as a fairminded and reasonable people, and withdrawing from the trade now when we've already told them that we'd give them Alphabet for those two techs is a two-faced sort of deal to make far too early in the game. We can establish contact with GoW within 5 turns. Their last message told me they were past ND's capital headed our way. Luckily for us, they are far more willing NOT to trade with ND who is a direct competator with them. My hope is that GoW's desire to befriend us and unite with us against ND will encourage them to delay trading with ND, especially when we're offering them such a good trade as Alphabet & Bronze for Wheel & W.C. History is filled with tough decisions. This is but a small one. We will be faced with many more in our long future. --Togas p.s. Feel free to post this email to the boards.

	01-01-2003 02:30									#9
	Got spare money?

I know ... this wasn't an easy decision for me to make as I had originally backed a plan of delaying as long as possible, but when given exactly what you've asked for, it's difficult to then pull away from the bargaining table and end negotiations. Would make us look rather like we're bargaining in bad faith, especially when they were the ones to "give" on the deal.

All that "bad faith" stuff aside (it matters, but it's not the only thing that does), I still believe we can trade Alphabet to GoW because of their rivalry with ND. They don't want to give warrior code and wheel to ND, they would rather their military ally (us) have it to use against ND. And since Gow has a warrior "past ND's capital headed our way", contact (in their minds) is assured.

This was not an easy decision to make at all, but it was the safest bet, as it was possible that ND could get Alphabet from someone else or decide not to trade with us after we "left them at the altar" and we would lose our chance entirely to complete this trade.

--Togas

	01-01-2003 03:50									#10
	Put an end to popups!

This is unfortunate, but I agree that it was the only thing to do. Otherwise, we may never have been able to sell Alphabet once. The thing that bugs me, however, is simply how ugly Caliph Abu Bakr Borc really is. I mean he looks ugly in the painting there, but close up...you'd think it was his pet elephant's posterior smiling at you in that toothless way. I mean this guy is sick! And his breath smells like...well, I won't go into that.

'Nuff said.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger

	01-01-2003 04:13									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by History Guy This is unfortunate, but I agree that it was the only thing to do. Otherwise, we may never have been able to sell Alphabet once. The thing that bugs me, however, is simply how ugly Caliph Abu Bakr Borc really is. I mean he looks ugly in the painting there, but close up...you'd think it was his pet elephant's posterior smiling at you in that toothless way. I mean this guy is sick! And his breath smells like...well, I won't go into that. 'Nuff said. Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger

It's probibly because he doesn't eat Squid.

Eta Tamali

	01-01-2003 07:15									#12
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Yeah, I've heard squid deficientcy not only brain washes (as the poor Controlians found out), but leaves one a toothless, flappy-eared chimp, as demonstrated by the image of the Caliph there. In fact, the pet name for him at court is Jo-jo, and he is very fond where peanuts are concerned. It's sad...really sad...

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger

	01-01-2003 18:02									#13
	Suffering from ads?

Well my fellow nobles. You know that my family doesn't trust ND at all, but I agree with Lord Togas that it was the best thing that could be done. There was no good reason to tell ND for not accepting the trade, and if we denied then the others would have seen us as a civ who asks too much, avoiding trades with us and going to trade with "cheaper" civs. Of course, it would have been better to trade Alphabet with everyone at once, but this is the best we could do at the moment.

	01-01-2003 19:15									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

Well done Togas & Dejon.

I hope we can still sell Alphabet to GoW...