01-01-2003 02:21									#1
	Liberal Democratic Congressman: Institute Mandatory Military Service Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A Democratic lawmaker said Sunday he will introduce a bill in the next session of Congress to make military service mandatory. Rep. Charles Rangel, D-New York, said such legislation could make members of Congress more reluctant to authorize military action. "I'm going to introduce legislation to have universal military service to let everyone have an opportunity to defend the free world against the threats coming to us," Rangel said on CNN's "Late Edition." "I'm talking about mandatory service." The Korean War veteran has accused the Bush administration and some fellow lawmakers of being too willing to go to war with Iraq. In October, he voted against a joint resolution authorizing military action against Iraq. It passed 296-133 in the House and 77-23 in the Senate. "When you talk about a war, you're talking about ground troops, you're talking about enlisted people, and they don't come from the kids and members of Congress," he said. "I think, if we went home and found out that there were families concerned about their kids going off to war, there would be more cautiousness and a more willingness to work with the international community than to say, 'Our way or the highway.' " Rangel did not provide specifics of his proposal.

Fortunately the President has said he does not support bringing back the draft. I would think this has little chance of becoming law.

	01-01-2003 02:26									#2
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He surely ain't liberal, more like moronic

	01-01-2003 02:27									#3
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Agreed on the moron part, but Rangel has one of the most liberal records in Congress......

	01-01-2003 02:34									#4
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What he's saying is reasonable, although I don't agree with it. Just look at who serves in the military in larger proportion to their share of the population: Rangel's consitutuents.

	01-01-2003 02:46									#5
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Well... it's political death to support a draft... and does he really think that having a manditory draft will stop presidents from going to war.... what a moron.

	01-01-2003 02:51									#6
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I think he's actually trying to make a larger point, which is that politicians don't really care about the troops that they gleefully send into battle because they're volunteers. An army composed of compulsery service would theoretically force politicians to pay more attention to the wishes of the electorate in initiating wars. I don't think he's right, nor do I think he truely supports mandatory service.

What he's doing by making a crazy claim is a bait and switch. The media wants to cover this "loon" who will then use the media coverage to blast his fellow politicians for being war-hawks.

	01-01-2003 02:55									#7
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Draft is not mandatory service. Again, it's 2 different things.

	01-01-2003 02:58									#8
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In theory, I like the idea of requiring ALL people serve some duty in the military after highschool (NO ONE of able body or sound mind...handicapped or mental patients would be the ONLY exceptions...gets out of it). That doesn't necessarily mean they'll see combat action. They'll get skills that they might not otherwise learn. Perhaps mandatory service could have junior college curriculumns thrown into the program to ensure EVERYONE has at least some college edewmaqation.

However, given the current climate of world affairs and domestic trends (in the United States) I have serious doubts that mandatory service would be a wise replacement for our volunteer military. Given Prez. Jr.'s track record of disturbing, even scary, moves I just don't think any good can come from this plan in the long run at this time. I'm a bit suprised the Bush says he doesn't like the idea, but I still think it will be passed in some form within ten years.

One other thing: Am I correct in stating that Mandatory Service IS NOT the same as the Draft? If they ARE the same, does that mean Israel is in a constant state of active Draft, as opposed to Mandatory Service?
EDIT: I see Slowhand's post above mine, but I was hoping for more detail/explaination...

	01-01-2003 02:58									#9
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara nor do I think he truely supports mandatory service.

It's an odd way to act on something you don't support by introducing legislation that would support it.

	01-01-2003 03:03									#10
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If you know it doesn't have a chance in hell of passing, why not?

	01-01-2003 03:08									#11
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara If you know it doesn't have a chance in hell of passing, why not?

You shouldn't introduce legislation on a side of an issue that you don't support. Anyway Che it seems like you are just trying to find some way to write a pass for your fellow leftie. I don't see any evidence anywhere that'd indicate he was BSing in his statements in favor of the draft. He certainly seemed like he believed in mandatory service in his editorial in the NY times.

	01-01-2003 03:19									#12
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Draft is not mandatory service. Again, it's 2 different things.

No, they aren't.

quote: Anyway Che it seems like you are just trying to find some way to write a pass for your fellow leftie.

I don't think that che would like being so closely linked to a Democrat.

	01-01-2003 03:24									#13
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Originally posted by SlowwHand
Draft is not mandatory service. Again, it's 2 different things.

Replied to by DinoDoc
No, they aren't.



Well, since everyone seems to be dancing around my post...
...Why exactly are they the same thing (so says you) DinoDoc?

	01-01-2003 03:26									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi I don't see any evidence anywhere that'd indicate he was BSing in his statements in favor of the draft. He certainly seemed like he believed in mandatory service in his editorial in the NY times.

I can only go by what I saw on CNN while sitting in the airport hoping for someone to miss their plane so I could go home. What they showed had him less talking about the virtues of mandatory service as opposed to him saying to would force politicians to more carfeully consider the use of military force. The implication being that the current Administration and Congress hasn't done so.

	01-01-2003 03:27									#15
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quote: Originally posted by DRoseDARs ...Why exactly are they the same thing (so says you) DinoDoc?

I'd rather avoid starting this up again.

	01-01-2003 04:33									#16
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quote: An army composed of compulsery service would theoretically force politicians to pay more attention to the wishes of the electorate in initiating wars.

The only problem is that 60%+ of the electorate want to go into Iraq, which is the war he's against right now. Usually the propaganda machine works well in advance of a war so more people are for it.

	01-01-2003 06:55									#17
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quote: "I'm going to introduce legislation to have universal military service to let everyone have an opportunity to defend the free world against the threats coming to us," Rangel said on CNN's "Late Edition." "I'm talking about mandatory service."

Hmm...MANDATORY "service" to have the "opportunity" to defend the FREE world? What's scarier, that this mentally challenged guy who equates mandatory service with freedom and "opportunity" is in Congress or that people actually vote for people who can't combine words to make a sentence without contradictions? Would he refer to african slaves as people who merely had the opportunity to mandatorily serve their masters? He was on one of these talking head shows with a military analyst who opposed his legislation and the analyst explained how the voluntary military was so much better than draftees and Rangel just ignored his arguments. No Charles, if there was a draft, the politicians would just create loopholes to let their kids and friends out of the draft as they have always done.

	01-01-2003 07:07									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Agreed on the moron part, but Rangel has one of the most liberal records in Congress......

Rangel was moronic because he was a liberal.

	01-01-2003 07:12									#19
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Actually I am quite impressed just how competent our volunteer military is. It accomplishes its job with very few casualties. If the troops were conscripts, in contrast, we could expect a lot more casualties, like Vietnam, which would turn America against the use of war as a means of policy.

Rangel is clever and malicious at the same time.

	01-01-2003 07:44									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui The only problem is that 60%+ of the electorate want to go into Iraq, which is the war he's against right now. Usually the propaganda machine works well in advance of a war so more people are for it.

As I said, I don't think it would work, even if he was serious in trying to get it passed, which I don't really believe he is.

	01-01-2003 07:52									#21
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Che, he has already asked his fellow members of Congress to support him. He is proposing something idiotc and I don't see why you don't just call him on it.

quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Hmm...MANDATORY "service" to have the "opportunity" to defend the FREE world? What's scarier, that this mentally challenged guy who equates mandatory service with freedom and "opportunity" is in Congress or that people actually vote for people who can't combine words to make a sentence without contradictions? Would he refer to african slaves as people who merely had the opportunity to mandatorily serve their masters? He was on one of these talking head shows with a military analyst who opposed his legislation and the analyst explained how the voluntary military was so much better than draftees and Rangel just ignored his arguments. No Charles, if there was a draft, the politicians would just create loopholes to let their kids and friends out of the draft as they have always done.

Correct Berz, Rangel has done a double dummy. In addition to great breach against freedom the draft would be, he ignores the facts that volunteers make better soldiers and that given what the US pays per soldier it'd be way too expensive to have everyone be in the military of age.

	01-01-2003 08:05									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui The only problem is that 60%+ of the electorate want to go into Iraq,

Yes, but only if the inspectors turn up weapons of mass destruction and only if the U.N. okays it. For the U.S. to act unilaterally with no evidence...only 20% support.

	01-01-2003 08:08									#23
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Rangel isn't an idiot, he knows that this won't pass - it's a political maneuver. And even though I disagree with the proposal, I can't help but think that raising a debate on the issue, during a time of war, can't help but be a good thing.

	01-01-2003 08:15									#24
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There, if Edan and I agree, you know that there must be something to our argument.