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Guynemer
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Re: losing facilities if you exploit a submissive...
I can't say if this happens to the AI or not. But it DOES happen to human players if, for instance, a hostile AI demands an amount of credits that you don't have but agree to pay them anyway. Your energy will go to negative whatever, and then you will lose one base facility (or perhaps more than one... it's only happened once to me, so I couldn't say for certain).
Guynemer
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"My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
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Helium Pond
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Los Anheles, California, Good Ole U S of A
Nov 1999
time: 05:13
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Ogie,
Thanks for the input, but I just found out you can't trade cities with humans in multiplayer games! Am I wrong? I couldn't find that option anywhere on the diplomacy screen. If true, this renders the whole concept of "cooperative trading" moot.
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Hunkpapa
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Philly, PA
Feb 2000
time: 05:13
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The probe teaming allies in my opinion is NOT a cheat.
The US govt. is constantly running covert operations in allied and enemy countries. They don't ask for permission.
The player should not be notified if you succesfully probed them. That is the whole point of a COVERT operation. If you get caught, then pay the price.
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Helium Pond
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Los Anheles, California, Good Ole U S of A
Nov 1999
time: 05:13
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Hunkpapa, I think you didn't understand the bug. You say "if you get caught, then pay the price." The problem is, in hotseat play, if you get caught, *you*, not the player you probed, get the warning message. They never know.
Some people think it's fine to allow this. But whatever anyone thinks, it's obviously not the intent of the game designers.
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HP: I agree with your infinite drops rule, but one I think you need to add to the list is drops when not in a base. I don't personally consider that a cheat, I think it should be a standard rule. BUT, if other people consider it a cheat, it needs to be on the list, at least as an item to be agreed on before hand.
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Yours Truly
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Vi Vicdi
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Killeen, TX, USA
Nov 1999
time: 23:13
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In all my time playing I have never been prevented from initiating a jump. Dropping certain places, like enemy airbases, are strictly forbidden, but I've never heard of any restriction on where you can begin a jump.
Why would it be illegal or "cheating" to initiate jump from anywhere you want? Is there some obscure reference to this in the manual? Why should we have to follow a rule that was never actually put into the game?
(Or is this another case of your interface preference determining which rules you get?)
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JAMiAM
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Santa Clara, CA, USoA
May 1999
time: 21:13
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The requirement for a unit to be in an airbase, or a base, in order to begin an airdrop is clearly specified in the manual, page 91. It is reiterated in the Datalinks entry, under "drop pods".
It is a bug, that the action choice is not deactivated in the right click menu options, when a unit is outside a base, or airbase.
That's why it is considered a cheat.
Of course, if the players wish to adopt a "house rule" allowing such actions, it should be discussed, and agreed upon, beforehand.
[This message has been edited by JAMiAM (edited April 21, 2000).]
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Squash
[This message has been edited by YT (edited April 25, 2000).]
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And once again: Squash
[This message has been edited by YT (edited April 25, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by YT (edited April 25, 2000).]
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Ned: The disband thing is in the manual somewhere. If you disband a unit anywhere (not just in a base), it's minerals get added to a base. However, I'm not sure if it is the nearest base, or it's home base. Because of this, I usually disband dinky units that I capture with probes or ship's marines.
To be honsest, I've often wondered why people find it neccissary to move crawlers all the way into a base to disband it to rush a secret project. I'm pretty sure that the minerals get added to the nearest base (not the home), just like harvesting forests. Just disband crawlers nearest to the base building the project. I'll have to test this theory and see if it works, 'cause if it does, it'll save a lot of time.
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Yours Truly
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I was not aware (or had forgotten) that disbanding only gave half the mineral value. Thanks for the correction. I'll double check the outside of city thing too.
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Yours Truly
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:13
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Come, on. In Civ, one could build farms, roads, railroads in one turn by simply giving a farmer orders, reactivating, giving the orders again, reactivating, etc., until the improvement was complete. There was no rule against this. But it fundamentally altered the game if one employed the technique.
Now that I understand the crawler upgrade technique, I consider it to be one of the biggest cheats in the game even though there is no express rule against it. It fundamentally alters the game by making SPs cheaper than ordinary city improvements. This is bizzare!
We should ask Firaxis to fix it. However, before they would, I believe we should agree that it should be fixed.
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Helium Pond
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Los Anheles, California, Good Ole U S of A
Nov 1999
time: 05:13
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Wow--thanks for all the input, everybody! When did all those replies build up? I must have blinked.
I've added two cheats, the Mega-Crawler and the Workshop Upgrades. Personally, I don't think Workshop Upgrades is that big a deal; usually it's way too expensive, because you have to upgrade all the units of a given type at once. So there's a penalty attached, if you have more than one unit of a given type, which you almost always do.
The Mega-Crawler does seem like a huge cheat. Hard to keep people from doing it, though.
YT and JamIAm: I wanted to add the Drop Pods thing, but I realized I've had a contrary experience. I remember making a Drop Pod equipped former, to clear up some fungus on a nearby island, and then being unable to get it back. I got a message along the lines of "Orbital Insertions can only be made from bases or airbases." So, my question is, are you sure this isn't an undocumented feature of the Space Elevator?
korn469: I can see how that is not consistent with the game's terrain logic. But, are you suggesting that players in MP not take advantage of it, and end all their units' turns as soon as they get off a ship? Remember, I'm not trying to just generate a list of design flaws, although most of the things on the list come from design flaws. I'm trying to make a list of the issues players should agree upon before starting a multiplayer game. I don't think anyone would try to get people not to move freshly-disembarked units. Of course, I could be wrong. Has anyone played an MP game like that?
Thanks for keeping this list alive, y'alls. I think it's a really valuable resource. I hope it's been of use to some of you, too.
(Can somebody tell me how to use boldface in these posts? I want to make the titles of the cheats bold, for easier reading.)
[This message has been edited by Helium Pond (edited April 26, 2000).]
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Enigma
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Midland, MI, USA
Feb 2000
time: 05:13
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Using square brackets to replace the {'s..
{b}this is bold{/b}
When the curly brackets are replaced with square brackets that becomes
this is bold
Incidentally if you want to know the exact code of what someone used, click edit and you can look at what they actually typed in.
I think that the unit shop upgrade is not that much of a cheat since you must upgrade every unit there. If you are tight on cash then you do not need to upgrade your rear line defensive troops. By doing a regular upgrade then you can be more efficient with it. Besides this sort of massive upgrade is mostly used to add clean reactors to formers.
As far as the fact that units always have 1 move when they get off the ship I agree that that is a bad part of the game mechanics. I like the idea of forcing people to use marine pods, but if you can do landings easily with a rover you do not need marine pods.
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HP: Using the right click menu to air drop when not on a base/airbase is well documented. However, they may have fixed it in the SMACX V2.0 Patch. I just realized that I have been using the No-CD crack recently, and I'm pretty sure that's SMACX V1.0, and have noticed several supposedly fixed bugs have been occuring since I started doing that (for example, I don't get the right quotes for certain facilities anymore). I'll grab my CD back (lent it to a friend), and try a right-click airdrop while using V2.
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Yours Truly
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Ned: All non-combat units (including probe teams) have 0 movement points left after an airdrop. In addition, they cannot drop into a base radii (possibly even enemy territory) at all, even if there are no enemy air faorces to prevent the drop.
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Helium Pond
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Los Anheles, California, Good Ole U S of A
Nov 1999
time: 05:13
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Thanks for the info on boldface.
As to drop teams: a) you didn't mention the Space Elevator, are you sure you can do this without it? b) I'm curious about the same thing I aked korn469 about the shore landings: given that this is a bug, is it really something that people would ask each other not to do? When you (anyone out there) play Multi-Player, do you really ask each other only to begin drops from cities?
[This message has been edited by Helium Pond (edited April 27, 2000).]
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HP:
1) without the space elevator you can use this bug to drop from anywhere to anyother square within 8 squares that is legal for that unit. With the Space Elevator (or Gravitronics tech) you can use the bug to drop from anywhere to anywhere that is a legal drop for that unit.
2) When I play MP, I always make sure all the other players are aware of the bug, and request that we CAN use the bug to drop from any location. I personally think that it should be a standard part of the game.
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Yours Truly
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08-04-2000 01:15
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