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big_canuk
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Leamington, ON, Canada
Jul 2000
time: 00:13
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WE:
I admit that I have recently experienced the pod pop creating fungus. I wouldn't call this a random event, however. To avoid pod pop negatives, I attempt to place a base next to preferably 2 pods first, and then pop them. I think this eliminates negative outcomes, with certainly no worms.
As for the "other" events(satellite destruction, etc.), I just don't experience them. Perhaps I don't play enough games, if they only occur in 1 out of 10 or so. I suspect however, that those "other" negative "random" events may be caused by ecodamage. I rigourously avoid ecodamage, even to the point of switching a worker before growth away from a mineral square. (I do miss it once in a while, and get ecodamage for 1 turn in the usually 2-20% range)
If you would like to discuss further, maybe we should do it in the random events thread. Sorry I went on so long here, but, **slap me**, I'm obviously a random events fanatic. 
I just couldn't win, without all those positive events. 
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blockheads56
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Omaha, NE. USA
Nov 2000
time: 05:13
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If you don't mind i would like a chance at this challenge. Please mail to me at 1000cranes@home.com thanks, It's been great reading these forums for the last year or so.
------------------
"Farmer, pointing the way. With a radish." -Issa
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Misotu
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Leamington Spa, England
Dec 1999
time: 05:13
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quote:
Originally posted by mark13 on 11-10-2000 07:13 PM
Mis, I believe the research breakthrough is an amount of research points, rather than a specific breakthrough. I must confess that I have not tested this (gee, I'm sounding like Mis already ), but I believe that is the case.
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 Emulation doesn't bother me. Feel free.
You must be right, because this happens so many times to me. But, you know, in that case ... what's the point? I mean, really.
A game like this is a strategy game. A certain level of randomness is fine. Pods, battle odds not panning out, the initial decision to explore north or south. But in the end, this *is* a strategy game. After the initial few turns with the pods, the game settles down in MP, especially on the tourny map. And random events are simply distractions. In SP, fine. The AI needs all the help it can get. But in MP? They add nothing, except that random chance that your opponent will be sunk by bad luck. Well ... terrific. A victory well worth having [/sarcasm]
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Capt Dizle
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Who is supposed to set this up?
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i will do it. Procrastination's me second name.
thanks White Elephants. I'm leaning towards
Directed Research
Pods Off
Random Events Off
Planet Settings Standard
Difficulty Transcend
Spoils Off
Tech Stag
No Iron Man
Planet Size Standard
Faction: Lal,
vs 2 Aliens, Yang, Miri, Zak, Sven
Nonagressive AI?
Amount of Fungus? Standard
if its ok with you i 'll play till the year of the aliens land (read: those pods will be popped)
I'm leaning towards unity survey (yes, it makes it much easier, but makes more sense in terms of the technological background, and minimizes another random factor, and even recognized starting positions of all AI's (its impossible to miss a gazillion tons of metal on a planet like Chiron. +, i have to use the scen editor to make sure the starting positions are not too extreme.
protest away ;-)
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mark13
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Northampton, England
Sep 2000
time: 05:13
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No, I like it actually. It makes sense to play until the year the aliens land, and non-aggressive AI sounds good, to make sure *everyone* doesn't hate you, just Yang, Miriam, Sven and the aliens.
Tech stag will make things tricky, it is a challenge I am looking forward to. I don't suppose we'll all start with any extra techs?
But no, seriously, it sounds good - now get the game out so we can have a look!
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MariOne
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Erewhon in Neverland
May 1999
time: 06:13
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Flo, you should still have my addy, count me in (BTW, I'm Mose in case you forgot).
I'd like to point out that the "native lifeforms" setting also works as a parameter which influences other aspects of gameplay, namely ecodamage. I think that setting it Abundant will make it more of a challenge.
And I'd like to understand which set of rules we should trust each one to respect. I understand that in solo play we only have to rely on everybody's sportmanship, but what looks fair to one might be unacceptable to others.
And while in ACOL we have a PAGE of Rules, I looked for them here, and also asked, but couldn't find a common set.
I'll play for the taste of the challenge, and I won't find fun in spoiling my "honor" for that, even if only I would know, and for what it's worth. But I won't think dishonorable to use Stockpile Energy in the Queues, or upgrade crawlers to build Projects. IMHO those are parts of the game.
If someone votes to ban Stockpile in the Qs, I can accept it but I think that then the game will be fair and balanced only if we ban Empty Qs as well (I don't want to delve again into that, this is just an example).
As for what do you expect about DW upgrades usage, or SE switching, or AI base trades, and so on.
As you pointed out, Iron Man won't stop cheaters anyway.
Mutliple attempts are interesting in the sense that you can truly refine your strategy and the final result will better reflect your potential.
What do we expect from each other about how to handle multiple attempts?
I mean, I guess you'll accept that we save halfway, not everybody will have time to play a whole game in one go.
For a refining attempt, do I have to play a completely separate game from the original savefile? Or if I want to try a different course after turn 100, I can be spared to replay the first 100 turns, and branch from there? Where will be then drawn the limit between "reloads" and "attempts"? Every 100 turns? 50? 20? 10? 5?
Best thing I'd say would be to set a TIME-LIMIT for the presentation of the results. Like the challenge will be closed in two weeks. Any later score only academic.
I bookmared this thread, keep me informed.
[This message has been edited by MariOne (edited November 12, 2000).]
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grmblfyx, just changed my username, now everything is kaputt.
thanks for your input.
abundant life: the purpose of this challenge is not to confront ourselves with the hardest possible settings. (try the Morgan challenge for that. Its pretty disgusting)
What i like about average is the low likelyhood of losing your first or second colonist to some freak worm.
No, the purpose of this exercise is to provide a flexible, balanced starting position for different approaches
The map and faction allow for almost any kind of conquest/development scheme, allowing us to see how different strats work out long term.
rules: please check out http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum27/HTML/000245.html?6 for rules.
Crawlers for projects are clearly a feature; after 50+ mails on the subject i maintain stockpile NRG after units is both extremely shady and unnecessary micromanagement. I'm happy to say its considered a cheat in the email games on 'poly (the main reason i emigrated, as a matter of fact )
WhiteElephants made excellent suggestions. I concur.
replays: the way i see it, replays by the same players would be interesting to see the effects different approaches have long term.
One example would be social engineering. Lets say, you have the choice between planned and free market by 2130, and decide to run one game 80% free market, with some pop booming phases
and one in planned only. An exhaustive comparison of 2 games by the same player to see short and long term impacts would be really interesting. (other examples: specialist cities vs. Megalopolis, Rushing Yang early, or waiting for a crushing tech advantage. etc.
in summary i would suggest: no limits on STRATEGIC replays, from whatever point in the game, but reports of key differences in the games before/after are mandatory.
timelimit: good idea, but 2 weeks sounds a little short for working people. We are doing this for fun, not to run away. It *should* be a fairly time consuming game; Lals inefficiency and techstag do not exactly help the cause of a quick transcend. What about 8 or 12 weeks ?
thanks Googlie !! You just received the file (2106). Hope it bears some resemblance with the game we all wanna play.
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Capt Dizle
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ok, i downloaded, year is 2108 and i am on my 4th strategic reload...love these rules
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Capt Dizle
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oops, going to strategic reload 5, Planet sent Jesse Jackson and two worm boils to UN Headquarters to demand a recount...
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Capt Dizle
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Ok, serious post this time. I am stuck at M.Y. 2133.
Flo, since you are the creator, please post the offical settings and rules.
I need some specific guidance in regard to what use of subverted units I can make in the workshop. Will factions restart? My generals have requested that they be allowed to go weapons hot, probable result=faction elimination.
This is a conquest game too, right?
jt, impacting the peace on Chiron with diplomacy and terror
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mark13
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Northampton, England
Sep 2000
time: 05:13
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OK, what I'm going to do is play the first time right through to the end, and use any acquired information in subsequent games. Here is that first log:
2107: Yang found, treaty signed.
2109: Tech! Centauri Ecology - hello formers!
2115: Tech! Information Networks
2118: U.N. Pillar of Rights founded, pushing Yang into his territory - I want that ridge!
2119: U.N. Haven City founded on Sunny Mesa - Formers rushed
2122: It seems Yang and Svensgaard are at war - I could take sides, but I'm not strong enough just yet; Power graph shows me fourth behind aliens and pirates.....
2125: Tech! Industrial Base
2127:  Yang founds a base just off the ridge - with next CP in 7 turns, it'll be touch and go....
2131: WP started at U.N. HQ - ETA 25 turns
2132: Damn - Yang has the ridge - I have to settle for Mesa - for the moment :evil grin:
2134: U.N. Data Acquisition founded
2135: Tech! Industrial Economics - still can't trade any tech - drat!
2137: U.N. Settlement Agency founded - I'm going to get half of the ridge at least!
2138: U.N. Amnesty Town founded on the northern part of the continent - reasonable resources means it will make a good production centre.
2140: An unbelievably friendly Yang offers Doctrine: Mobility for my Centauri Ecology - I accept.
2140 Stats:
# of bases - 7
# of techs - 6
techs every 10, next in 5 (PlanNet)
Pop - 11
Income +6
WP under construction - univ building VW
4th on powergraph behind aliens and University
Treaty with Yang and Svensgaard
Comments:
A satisfactory first forty years - I must trade some techs though in the future if I'm going to get anywhere. The economy is satisfactory, although the main worry is that I am beginning to run out of places to expand - sea colonies might be the answer....
2141: HGP started at U.N. Health Authority - ETA 29 turns
2142: Hive and Pirates kiss and make up, pact signed with Svensgaard
2144: Tech! Planetary Networks - 12 to IndAuto, hoping to get Social Psych in the meantime....
2145: Battle Ogre found - that should keep Yang off my back for a while....
2153: First 1-2-2 defensive rolls off the production lines....probe team being prepared to infiltrate Yang
2155: Tech! Industrial Automation - crawlers being prepared at most bases; WP completed! The Ascent is begun! (that is, the rasiing of the land )
2157: Svensgaard gives me H'minee commlink - threatens and declares war. Damn.
2160: Grumble. Yang demands 150 credits, as I am just not strong enough to fight a full-scale war at the moment. Yang infiltrated. ME started at U.N. HQ with a view to stealing the VW.
2164: SE to wealth, somthing I should have done a while ago, but was hesitant because of the war. Now I know H'minee is not yet a threat I have switched.
2165: HGP completed! Tech! Applied Physics, researching Social Psych with a view to Nonlinear Maths in the near future....
2167: Still no-one will trade Social Psych, at a time when I really need those Rec Commons....
2168: Switch away from wealth - Svensgaard already hates me for it, and he will break the pact soon at this rate....
Better do some more stats at 2170:
Pop - 24 (Yang 17, Svensgaard 22)
Techs - 9 (Yang and Svensgaard both 8)
# of bases - 10
SPs - WP and HGP
Income - 24/yr
Researching Social Psych
Techs every 11, next in 6
2nd on powergraph behind Caretakers
A few mutterings:
Not going great at the moment - can't trade techs at the moment, and my discovery rate isn't exactly lightning quick. Run out of places to expand - hopefully we can raise the land and fix this problem. It's going to be a long, long road to the lifting of the restrictinos - that has probably been my main mistake in this game. ETA @ transcendence - no earlier than 2320, it really is that bad....
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mark13
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Northampton, England
Sep 2000
time: 05:13
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Second part of Fall 2000 challenge log, Brother Mark of the Peacekeepers:
Plan of action:
I *must* keep the peace with Yang, that is imperative, as I currently have neither impact weapons or plasma steel armour. Svensgaard's Pact looks fragile to say the least, it wouldn't be a huge disaster if that dissolved, but it would mean that I would have limited access to the waters around my continent...
2172: Doc Flex acquired from Pirates - I must see if I can get a foil probe into action to get HEC from him....
2175: Tech! - Social Psych, at last - researching Nonlinear Maths
2176: VW built at U.N. HQ
Yang demands 50 credits - I give in...
2177: Elections called by Zak after building EG - Mark elected Planetary Governor
Foil probe enters Pirate base and comes out with....Progenitor Psych. *sigh* - Pact ended.
Zak won't sign treaty , Miriam does.
2178: Zak demands 75, only 30 given though - he is pretty hostile at the moment...
2181: Go over to Marr with a probe team - he demands 100 credits, I give him 50 - and infiltrate him.
2182: U.N. Enforcement base founded on a bit of raised land just south of the HQ.
2184: Switch to FM - should help labs production....
2185: Tech! - Nonlinear Mathematics - to say it was necessary would be an understatement....
2189: Impact weapon prototyped - all Unity rovers will be upgraded soon.
Foil probes takes SotHB from Caretakers
2190: U.N. Disaster Relief founded on a recently cleared fungus patch just west of Mesa.
2193: Tech! High Energy Chemistry - going head-long for Ethical Calculus to make up some much-lost builder time....
2195: Field Modulation probed from the Caretakers.
2199: First 4-3-1 comes off the production line - tension mounts on the Hive border....
Time for a status report methinks:
M.Y. 2200
Security Nexus:
1 Battle Ogre Mk1
1 Laser Squad 2-2-1
4 Impact Rovers 4-1-2
1 Impact Squad 4-3-1
9 Trance Scout Defensives 1-2t-2
5 Probe Teams
5 Supply Crawlers
1 "SP Supply" (upgraded) Supply-3-1
Economic status:
Income: 66/yr
Maintenance: 21/yr
Loan: 3/yr (Pirates)
Lab status:
Tech cost: 672 Tech per turn: 73
Techs every 10 turns, EthCalc in 2
Score breakdown:
Population: 39 (12 bases)
Commerce: 19
Technology: 16
SPs (WP, HGP, VW): 75
Score: 149
Running FM at 50/0/50
Might: unsurpassed - just ahead of the Caretakers....
A few thoughts:
Tense. Very tense. With each passing turn you expect Yang to come up, demanding 1000 energy credits. But it has only happened twice, thus far - probably more frequent when I change to demo, in 2 turns time. This is not going to be the quickest transcend by a long way - I am just concentrating on taking a clear lead at the moment. But hey, it's my first go - we'll play this out and see what we can do in subsequent games.
I now have technological advantage over Yang, which will stand me in good stead for the inevitable upcoming war (he doesn't have impacts yet). But I am in no position to even think about attempting an invasion - impact weapons simply aren't going to be enough at the moment.
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you guys are fast ! I'm still at 2106, and won't play today, either
regarding jimmytricks rules questions (the fiend !): using captured units as templates is not allowed. You are barely able to copy them, but don't understand the captured technology well enough to modify it.
Didn't touch the restart option. Default is respawning, right ?
Only transcend and economic victories are enabled. As an afterthought, we should be able to go for conquest, too. (can someone actually pull this off before fast transcendence players .... hmmm ?) My bad. Consider it enabled.
Happy hunting !
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11-11-2000 03:28
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