01-01-2003 22:02									#1
	PBEM with a twist.... Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Hi, looking for something else this time.

How about doing a scenario, maybe start in the middleage, that sort of thing.

No big core/rule changes, preferably none in fact, too confusing.

hmm,
4-5 players
NO AI !!!
Random standard map

all else is up for discussion
-----------------------------------------

* current proposals *


- middleage start
- co-op (2X2)

-----------------------------------------

* agreed upon *

- nothing

-----------------------------------------

* (possible) players *

- alva (gmt +1)
- Frustrated Poet
- Conqueror
- Ghengisfarb

-----------------------------------------

Last edited by alva on 03-01-2003 at 21:44

	01-01-2003 22:32									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I've been working on a Mod to simulate the Colonial Period where I've added several more coastal improvements (during the Colonial Age coastal cities were more the center of power than inland cities) that I was hoping to get some people to PBEM when it was done:

Wharf: +1 food in water tiles

Harbor: +1 food and +1 commerce in water tiles, allows water trade

Shipyard: +1 shield in water tiles

Naval Shipyard (Small Wonder) Acts the same as Ironworks but requires the Timber resource to be within the city radius

Seaport: +1 food, +1 commerce, and +1 shield in water tiles.

Eventual goal was to to start in the Middle Ages and then go into the Renaissance and Industrial/Modern Ages.

	02-01-2003 18:53									#3
	Full PM-box? Change here!

hmm, not bad Ghengis, those are more changes then I had in mind though.

I had expected more response btw...
Common people!!!!
other options..,
- Team game (co-op)
- mini!!!!demo-game( allmost the same as the one
above, just not quite)
- one of the new victory modes,....

	03-01-2003 16:24									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I like the idea of a co-op game. How about a 2v2?

If a neutral person created a random map with each of the teammate's start locations near each other (so they could meet for early trades and exchange maps etc.) then I'd be good.

I'm thinking of a small maps with two equal (even identical?) continents. Each team starts on a seperate continent.
Maybe have a couple of "coast bridges" between the two continents so we won't have to wait until Navigation to explore.

I'm in for this game.

	03-01-2003 19:57									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I could join, but, only if there's not too much twisting, i dont like changing the basic rules.

	03-01-2003 21:42									#6
	Got spare money?

Sounds good FP
(4 players = standard map?? , growth,science will go faster 2 x 2 then when playing individually.
We could have 80% water )

Conqueror, me neither, at least not for an PBEM game (allthough I might try it)
I justed wanted to do something else, without touching the core rules too much, if at all...
Right now, I have about 5 games going, and pressing enter is nice, but not great...

	03-01-2003 22:49									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I had been thinking along the same lines FP, a Team Multiplayer either with an Individual playing two civs or Team Democracy.

	04-01-2003 01:20									#8
	Got spare money?

2 on 2 could be very interesting, altough should be confirmed that same team members start relatively near each other, and if everyone is not on the same landmass, then galleys should be enough to get to the enemy.

	04-01-2003 03:25									#9
	Remove this text

quote: I had been thinking along the same lines FP, a Team Multiplayer either with an Individual playing two civs or Team Democracy.

I don't care either way, but this should be decided asap..
For the one we have enough players, to do the other we need 4 more.

A cop-op would be a ground-breaking game though.
(Just the choice of civs... )

	05-01-2003 17:28									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

co-op is lots of fun, even against the AI. We played a co-op PBEM game against Deity AI's with a friend, it was very educative experience, even tho he had bad luck with RNG too many times and we agreed on not continuing till the end.

/edit: Altho now that i think of it the, AI was propably more like Emperor or Monarch due to the difficulty level buggin in PBEM, it didnt expand the way AI's do on Deity. But it certainly was not regent. Agh another example of these horrid PBEM bugs.

Last edited by Conqueror on 05-01-2003 at 17:33

	05-01-2003 19:08									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

So lets not bother with the AI then

SO, are you all in? Can I close it?(<-- membership)

	05-01-2003 19:26									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

If we're gonna play a 2v2 with no AI then I'm defintely in.

Civ picks will be a very interesting decision, we'd need to choose civs that would complement each other well.

2 Civs on a team gives 4 traits. Industrious is a must so that somebody can build fast workers. Expansionist would let somebody use Scouts and guarantee good hut results, but if we already know that each team is on an island then finding out the terrain is not the biggest priority.

Also, if the teams have to attack over water then naval power will actually be important for once. Will people pick Vikings for the Berserker and/or English for the Man-O-War?

It'd be interesting to see what Civs people pick.

	06-01-2003 10:10									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

something I saw in an other and is not a bad idea, maybe confusing..

How about starting two games, same line-up(teams), but different map, civs, etc....

	06-01-2003 15:05									#14
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by alva How about starting two games, same line-up(teams), but different map, civs, etc....

I'm already in 5 PBEM's. I'm Ok with being in a 6th if it's a unique idea (like the 2v2), but I don't wanna be in 7 (if we do this one twice).
Sorry.

	07-01-2003 07:19									#15
	Put an end to popups!

Sure, no prob, it was just a thought

	07-01-2003 19:22									#16
	Support Apolyton

Okay, we have 4 people and that will work perfectly for the 2v2 idea.

I think a player's 2 teams should be right behind one another to speed up gameplay.

Which 2 teams does each player want?


If we choose, I would like to be the Germans and French. The Franco-German Empire.

	07-01-2003 20:54									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: I think a player's 2 teams should be right behind one another to speed up gameplay.

1. I don't real see how this would speed things (much)

2. It has the potential of being very unbalancing.

I'm waiting for Co,queror to say he IS in ot not.

	07-01-2003 21:00									#18
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by alva 1. I don't real see how this would speed things (much) 2. It has the potential of being very unbalancing. I'm waiting for Co,queror to say he IS in ot not.

If our two teams are in sucession then when you get the save you play team 1, then team 2, then email to the next member.

Otherwise you have to play TWICE as many times with TWICE as many lags.

You would send to me, it might be 4 hours until I get home to play my turn I email to the next, he emails it to the next, he emails it to the next, 3 hours later when I get back to play the game I play my team 2.

TWICE AS LONG, TWICE AS MUCH WAITING. I don't see how it unbalances the game in any way, but it does double the speed of the gameplay.

	07-01-2003 21:04									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Ghengis is right.

	07-01-2003 22:20									#20
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I was thinking in terms of each player doing their own turns...

As to the balance side of things:

You can get a complete-full out attack from two civs on one, instead of
move->counter->move->counter
we get
move->move->counter->counter

To speed things up, your idea is

	08-01-2003 20:55									#21
	Increase Your PM Length

So what's up. I'm curious to watch how this 2 on 2 game ends up working. Are you going to start sometime this year or not?

	09-01-2003 01:07									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by alva I was thinking in terms of each player doing their own turns... As to the balance side of things: You can get a complete-full out attack from two civs on one, instead of move->counter->move->counter we get move->move->counter->counter

It's no different from normal civ. Instead of one civ with 3 cities attacking another with 3 cities you will have two civs with a combined 6 cities attacking two other civs with a combined 6 cities.

Now, let's see you pick your two civs!

	09-01-2003 03:38									#23
	Put an end to popups!

We seems to be talking about to different things , arn't we?

let me see .

Ghengis: each player takes two teams and plays individually???

Alva: 2 players each pick one team but work together as one civ.

	09-01-2003 03:56									#24
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by alva Alva: 2 players each pick one team but work together as one civ.

That's what I was thinking of.

Example:
FP picks Egypt, Alva picks Persia - they start on the same continent and work together.
Ghengis picks China, Conqueror picks Carthage - they start on the same continent (but a different one to FP and alva ) and work together.

	09-01-2003 04:58									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

We could however combine both ideas...
Large map?
4 players, each 2 civs, 2 versus 2

	09-01-2003 05:04									#26
	Tired of ads?

I'd be OK with that idea too.

It'd be fairer if we took it in turn to pick our Civs if we're gona have more than one. Otherwise whoever chooses last would have missed out on the best 6 Civs.

	09-01-2003 05:34									#27
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet I'd be OK with that idea too. It'd be fairer if we took it in turn to pick our Civs if we're gona have more than one. Otherwise whoever chooses last would have missed out on the best 6 Civs.

Definitely misunderstood. I had been thinking of Democracy game where the Democracy chose 2-3 civs to be theirs, representing the religious, military, and merchant factions and played against 5 AI and I had assumed (wrongly) that this was similiar only we each chose two civs.

If we go your way then we should probably wait for more people. My way would have the slots taken up by 4 people. If go the 2 per player I had thought each player would submit their 2 team pact and if there are civs have been chosen by more than one player we can do some sort of compromise.

	09-01-2003 06:03									#28
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

ok let's start over again (yhis seems to be happening in many of my started games)

Can each of you post what you would like to do with this game?

	09-01-2003 20:23									#29
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I'm in for sure, somehow i didnt see any new posts in this thread for 2 days I'll remove the proxy server immediately. Strange that i saw all new posts in the GS private forum, hmm..

	09-01-2003 20:30									#30
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by alva ok let's start over again (yhis seems to be happening in many of my started games) Can each of you post what you would like to do with this game?

Maybe each of us control 2 civs, and all vs all game.
Or each only 1 civ, and we have 2 people playing like a "team", 2 vs 2 so to speak.

But considering that we are all already in a PtW demogame, we might not have too much time to negotiate the team strategies & such, so maybe "the 1 player with 2 civs" idea could be good.

But i'm up to the 2 vs 2 team game too, my partner just has to deal with not so much negotiating, then